Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Signalbox]

A second thread for those who wish to continue the discussion.

Thread 1 can be found here...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

I can’t bring myself to watch any of the footage until after confirmation that the female competitors are safe.
Those of you who watch live are way braver than me!
I quite like professional combat sports (enough to have got up in the middle of the night to watch a bout in a different time zone on several occasions), but the difference between Olympic and professional fights is that pro competitors are agreed many months in advance and aimed to be evenly matched (because no one wants an expensive to run, brand sponsored, high ticket cost pro event to be over in 46 seconds).

Read her post. She explains about the clothes.
Of course she is reading into it, but she is of the culture and makes a good argument.

I did read the post, I just don't agree and again I find it speculative.

Regardless of how an individual self perceives, ‘sport sex’ has to be about biology (start with chromosomes and then further investigation where necessary).

The sooner in a sports career that these tests are done the less scrutiny individuals will receive.

As one of the replies to Sasha’s tweet says (paraphrasing) an F passport and a sad backstory cannot be the criteria for the female protected category (regardless of whether that backstory is one of erroneous sex identification at birth or believing oneself to have a trans gender identity).

IOC have thrown these two competitors to the wolves, all because they want to be ‘inclusive’, whilst physically endangering their female opponents.

Inclusivity clearly isn’t a universal good, because this is a clusterfuck for everyone involved.

Apologies if this has already been shared, I can't keep up.

The European Vice President of the World Boxing Organization has come forward to confirm that Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is male.

István Kovács says he warned the Olympic Committee about several male boxers in the women's category, but nothing was done.

https://reduxx.info/international-olympic-committee-was-warned-about-male-boxers-world-boxing-organization-vice-president-says/

The retired world champion boxer also commented that he recently spoke with former women’s world champion Mária Kovács, who bitterly remarked that in modern women’s boxing, “there is a 20 percent chance that one of the athletes will suffer a testicular injury.”

My prediction on how this saga will end is that the two boxers won't go on to win the gold and then the powers that be will roll their eyes and pretend like theres no issue because they've been beaten by women whos sex isn't in question.

Apologies if this has already been shared, I can't keep up.

It's been shared on one of the threads but there are loads of them it's good to share it as widely as possible as people are trotting out the same old crap they've read on Twitter yesterday.

It would be like bringing a LION to Crufts, claiming it was a dog. Ha, that would bring the point home, wouldn't it...?

“Let’s be very clear, we are talking about women’s boxing,” Bach said. “We have two boxers who are born as a woman, who have been raised as a woman, who have a passport as a woman and who have competed for many years as a woman. This is the clear definition of a woman. There was never any doubt about them being a woman.....

“What we see now is that some want to own the definition of who is a woman. There I can only invite them to come up with a scientific-based, new definition of who is a woman and how can somebody being born, raised, competed and having a passport as a woman cannot be considered a woman.
“If they are coming up with something, we are ready to listen, we are ready to look into it, but we will not take part in a sometimes politically motivated, cultural war. Allow me to say that what is going on in this context in social media with all this hate speech, with this aggression and abuse fuelled by this agenda is totally unacceptable.”

Just fucking unbelievable.
Wonder if he would happy with his daughter in the boxing ring with this "woman"?

or would he prefer the bear?

This is the clear definition of a woman.

Except it isn't, is it, you fuckwit, Bach. There's plenty of people out there who were "born and raised as a woman", but are in fact male. And vice versa.

Comments under this story are INFURIATING! Lots of "Caster Semenya is another woman with high testosterone etc etc ".

I want to fucking scream.

Maybe this is what they'd like to happen but the boxers and those who have money invested them will want to win. Winning brings more money, more power, more kudos.

Maybe there will be a woman who can out manoeuvre them with talent and has enough stamina to keep it up long enough to win? Going by commentary today the women cannot compete against the much longer reach and powerful blows of Khelif for very long in the ring.

There's no reason though to think these males will not be out to win at any cost and will use every ounce of brute strength and advantage they can muster to demolish every female in their path to victory.

I'm so disgusted with the IOC I honestly think they should be charged with criminal conduct.

@LordPercyPercy

With respect, neither of us can know for sure what he thinks.

Let me put it this way instead.
If Khelif genuinely conceptualises himself as a woman, he will not enter the additional category any more than men who claim to be women will, if they are competing in the women's category for validation.

The BBC actually showed the match; which I have to say I'm suspicious about....are they are trying to normalise it? It made me really angry that the crowd were cheering on, and that the commentator referred to the Algerian as 'she'.

Anyway, at the end of the match - which the Algerian won - he beat his chest in the way that footballers do on scoring a goal - male footballers that is....women do not violently thump their own chests like this for obvious reasons. I've never seen it!

His reach was much longer than hers and his punch much more powerful. He looked every inch the man.

I agree , the whole scene was criminal as far as I'm concerned. The IOC must be held responsible.

"some want to own the definition of who is a woman"

It's the new right's hoarding dinosaur argument isn't it? Which is no argument at all to anyone with a modicum of intelligence!

It's so stupid it doesn't bear thinking about. Should we all just have our own definitions of our salary? Our own subjective definitions?

If Khelif genuinely conceptualises himself as a woman, he will not enter the additional category any more than men who claim to be women will, if they are competing in the women's category for validation

Oh absolutely, whether that or self-interest. That is why the IOC should have clear boundaries like genetic testing so that athletes are required to be in the appropriate group.

https://x.com/AzatAlsalim/status/1819738756334731744

Hmm no attempt to dress 'like a woman'...... Poster further down thread notes hugging the coach & men around 'her' after winning.

Which is fine, athletes with male DSDs could choose not to enter a male category or an open category (or even a new specific DSD category perhaps at the Para Olympics) as long as the Female Category isn’t given to them as an option!
It’s up to them if they would rather just stay home 🤷‍♀️

He seems to want to apply his own definition, one that avoids chromosomes funnily enough. Men telling women who is and isn’t a woman - not sexist at all!
Anyway, the positive I take from this sh$tshow, is that there has been a massive pushback from the public and I hope this will inform our politicians is terms of their future plans re gender identity.

Agree. For some reason this situation has triggered me more than previous ones. I think it's a perfect storm of emperor's new clothes, cruelty and reckless disregard for women.

The only positive I can think of is that there's actually some deep black ops going on within the IOC to force the issue but that is likely being generous.

Between Twitter comments saying that anyone querying the inclusion of these boxers is transphobic and/or racist, and the IOC rep telling women to wheesht, it has been a genuinely dementing few days.

When will the adults re-enter the room?

I was talking about why a third category would not work to take men out of the women's category. Many (most?) men/males would not enter the third category voluntarily. Only exclusion of ALL males from the female category, backed up by sex passports, will work.

@Shortshriftandlethal why do you find it suspicious that the BBC showed the match? It would have been far more suspicious if they had not shown this QF while showing the other three.

Several of us picked up on the way that the commentators constantly referred to Khelif as a woman and kept mentioning her long reach. I’m pretty sure it was signalling their own disgust with the match without falling foul of the IOC’s media rules.

Have to say that wasn't my reading of it. I think that's far too generous towards the commentary team.