Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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A second thread for those who wish to continue the discussion.

Thread 1 can be found here...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

I don’t know, I'm afraid - but I’m just reading on X about the IOC one this morning at which the hapless Mark Adams shrugged off some very good, pertinent questions from journalists with 'I'm not a lawyer' and 'I don’t know how CAS works'. Well, maybe, I dunno, FIND OUT???

It just gets worse and worse. If that’s even possible.

I'd be very surprised if Adams keeps his job. Utterly useless.

Westielove · Today 13:59

The claim she is XY originated from the Russian head of the IBA after she beat a Russian boxer. The IBA was banned from the olympics due to corruption.

Sorry, but that's been thoroughly and categorically debunked on more than one related thread.

I'm imagining a flurry of phone call to bezzie mate Keir. "Help me out mate how do I handle this PR problem?" and Sir Keir being all "Dude, you think I've got time for this? Half the country is burning to the ground. Tell them some women have dicks!"

I can understand why Swyers is considered a female DSD.

Male = body formed around small, mobile-gamete reproduction.
Female = body formed around large, immobile gamete reproduction.

What determines which path development goes down is the presence or absence of an SRY gene. Not whether there is a Y chromosome or not.

Now, in almost all circumstances an Y chromosome means an SRY gene. But, where it doesn't, it's the presence or absence of the gene not the chromosome that's determinative.

Individuals with Swyers have gone down the female pathway and have a body formed around large immobile gamete reproduction, so it makes sense to consider them female despite the presence of an incomplete Y chromosome.

0.1%!

Boxer gender eligibility: Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting row explained - BBC Sport

Wonder if anyone can help me out with a thought process I've been having re khelif... I've seen a lot of comments regarding hijab and can't get on board with that given I'd support anyone who refused to wear one.
But on a vaguely related note - would there be extra religious ramifications for a Muslim if they were to be found publicly to be a genetic male who has been in frequent physical contact with females? Or more so for the women that may have been fighting Khelif at home in Algeria?

Complete tangent, I apologise

Relatively balanced piece from the BBC, considering some of their other outputs.

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has cast doubt on the reliability of the tests and suggested what is happening is a “sometimes politically motivated cultural war”.

We’ve been reliably informed by Lisa Nandy that the culture wars are over so this must be incorrect.

speaking of which, has nandy been seen or heard of lately? Thought she would be all over this, what with it being her brief, and that.

It's depressing how good science has been designated 'culture wars'. These women are boxing with their physical bodies not a culture.

But not much about the two fighters, rather about what an awful bunch of crooks the IBA are (which may well not be wrong, of course). It could be made clearer than any tests would be done by an accredited lab, not "by the IBA", which implies it was something some dodgy Russian knocked up in his kitchen.

Yes good point. I guess my expectations of the BBC are very low!

This article is crazy. it’s basically saying we can’t trust the tests that were done because it was done by the Russians and they are corrupt and have close links with the Kremlin.

Surely all the more reason to do your own tests ffs then you can be sure. Their whole argument is pathetic.

"We don't know what the protocol was, we don't know whether the test was accurate, we don't know whether we should believe the test," said IOC spokesperson Mark Adams.

"There's a difference between a test taking place and whether we accept the accuracy or even the protocol of the test."

This article is crazy. it’s basically saying we can’t trust the tests that were done because it was done by the Russians and they are corrupt and have close links with the Kremlin.

Surely all the more reason to do your own tests ffs then you can be sure. Their whole argument is pathetic.

That is the main narrative on social media, which has been spread by the AP and so found its way into lots of other media.

It's not found such traction here because women here have been engaged in meticulously debunking it for days over multiple threads, and Mumsnet doesn't allow for disinformation to be spread so easily as Reddit etc.

So Mark Adams is questioning the labs that are used by the Court of Arbitration for Sport?
The question still remains why, if these test were in anyway dodgy, did the 2 boxers and their national federations not appeal the decision? One started the appeal process and then stopped and the other never started?
If this were any circumstances where you were sure you were being wronged you would appeal and be completely open as to why.
There has been no openness from either the boxers or their federations. Why not?

Quite.

"We don't know what the protocol was, we don't know whether the test was accurate, we don't know whether we should believe the test," said IOC spokesperson Mark Adams.

And yet the sports journalist Alan Abrahamson, who's now really digging into all this and says he’s seen the original documents with the test results, said earlier on X:

At daily @olympics briefing, spokesman Mark Adams confirms my reporting: IOC got @IBA_Boxing letter in June 2023. But Adams says without evidence tests are 'not legitimate.' I've seen Khelife, Lin tests. IOC knows, knew in 2023, New Delhi lab is CAP-accredited and ISO-certified.

Gosh, who to believe, when the IOC has been so trustworthy so far? It’s a puzzle for sure 🙄

Mark Adams would be well advised to start looking for new employment opportunities.

Yeah,there'll always be trolleys that need collecting.

"We don't know what the protocol was, we don't know whether the test was accurate, we don't know whether we should believe the test," said IOC spokesperson Mark Adams.

So he's suggesting that the two labs, and therefore The Court of Arbitration for Sport, are corrupt?

Even supermarkets require a level of honesty and integrity from their staff that this man doesn’t possess.

Well, he did also say earlier that he had no idea how CAS worked…..embarrassing, frankly

Hmmm I am sure that I have seen on X that Adams does have another job. Could anyone help me have a bit of nose?