Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Signalbox]

A second thread for those who wish to continue the discussion.

Thread 1 can be found here...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

Even my sister who agrees with my stance entirely told me she was born female with XY, so I've already had the conversation four times in person today!

I don't know who's paying for it, but something really weird is going on, China, Russia, the IOC? God knows, but it's designed to make us think we're going mad and we're not.

I'm noticing the same on Facebook too. Really random stuff but all full of disinformation.
Although I also have one feminist friend who has shared the story, and one TRA friend who has shared the other side of the story. So maybe that's why the algorithm has decided I want to see more - although it's only showing me the other side.

Oh. Yes. It was!!

BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · Today 15:49

I had a literal geologist arguing that I wasn't qualified to discuss it earlier. My quals are biochem and genetics.

Oh dear, tell him this geologist thinks he's a nincompoop. I did do two years of biochemistry and genetics.

Many years ago...

What a good comparative group study.

These elite female soldiers were likened to being like athletes. The study said they had,

well below the 5 nmol·L−1 serum testosterone limit for female Olympic athletes

So that statement by Arab (?)

”The IBA] said she was positive and her testosterone is very, very high. Then the medical president of the IOC said that it's really normal in boxing that the athletes' testosterone is high. For all the girls it is the same. Imane is not alone in this case”.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c51yyd8g3ylo

must not be true.

I just want to say that my opinion is they should not be in Olympic competition.

If he tries it again say 'In that case, stalactites are the ones that grow upwards' and interrupt with 'Bigot!' every time he tries to correct you.

Be kind has really done a number on women. I mean, apart from ‘the number 8’ that is.

Those endless posts declaring these athletes are women is beyond ridiculous now. But you know, I think that each thread exposes more to the cognitive dissonance of it all and I think what those who are focused on language don’t realise that they are just letting more sunlight in. They genuinely don’t see the scales falling from those reading and thinking… hang on…you mean that we are being lied to? And then seeing how they are being lied to and how they are being treated. All for the sake of ‘being kind’.

But it is happening. It really is an Isla Bryson moment. But it is fucked up that so many women are out at risk and suffering harm each time they have to box these male athletes.

Then, I think… hang on… remember when we would be deleted for wrong pronoun use? The tide is turning.

I’m wondering about how the usual Olympic drug testing regime will now apply.

In 2012, it was the top 5 finishers in each event, plus 2 other competitors chosen at random, that were tested.

Khelif will be a top 5 finisher now. Will the IOC (who is responsible for drug testing) keep to this programme and if so would a male athlete be exposed at this point?

Good question, I was wondering about testing.
If it is the case that this boxer has a male level of testosterone it will show up on a test, surely?
Can we trust the IOC to report accurately though?

No. The result will just be a ‘woman with high testosterone’.

I’m wondering just how the IOC is going to handle that. The cynic in me thinks that the IOC will either change its testing protocol (for ‘reasons’) or bury results.

Khelif will be a top 5 finisher now. Will the IOC (who is responsible for drug testing) keep to this programme and if so would a male athlete be exposed at this point?

I don't know if it's WADA or ITA on behalf of IOC that does testing at Olympics. But, whichever, you may have identified the reason for the pre-emptive comment about the T-levels…

Yeah, but - if a male T level is just accepted for this boxer, when in any (but one?) of the others it would indicate doping, how is that fair?
(answer - it's not)

This BBC article from 2012 says the IOC was responsible for the testing regime then.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19066937.amp

This article from WADA says that the ITA manages testing at the Games on behalf of the IOC.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/news/wada-announces-independent-observer-teams-2024-olympic-and-paralympic-games-paris

I’d like to think that the testing regime will be rigorous and open - but how the fuck would the IOC spin it? Nobody will buy ‘women with high testosterone’ now because it’s plainly a lie.

But you know, I think that each thread exposes more to the cognitive dissonance of it all

Well yes. My social media has women - middle aged women with sons - saying things like "I don't think that it has been proven that testosterone matters, is there actual proof that men are stronger than women? I don't think there is, really?"

And I'm this close to suggesting they challenge their 15-year-old sons to a fight or a wrestling match and tell them not to pull their punches then.

The cognitive dissonance is unbelievable. Sometimes I think it's the movies? Wonder Woman throws all those dudes around with no issue, Sgt Benson runs and catches the crook (in her heels, no less!), fights him and wins, that kind of thing. But then I think that these women have eyes and they see men and women next to each other.

Yes I feel it's the fracturing of society. It's just screwing everyone up. Someone is paying a lot for this.

World Boxing boss Boris Van Der Vorst addresses gender issues as Angela Carini quits mid-fight against Imane Khelif - ABC News

Well yes. My social media has women - middle aged women with sons - saying things like "I don't think that it has been proven that testosterone matters, is there actual proof that men are stronger than women? I don't think there is, really?"

I don't understand this at all. Being in close proximity to adult men for any period of time, you really notice the strengh difference even if it's not for any sinister reasons.

Who would you complain to? I am considering doing the same.

They've already set this argument up in anticipation. They can't be made to reveal the results so they'll pretend a result within the male range is just a bit high for a woman.

The IOC have had many years now of trotting out this lie with various athletes.

BBC complaints procedure:

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint/#/Complaint

I blame film and TV. These women understand that they are not as strong as the men around them.

But tv and film has suggested to them that tiny women who can beat up men who look like The Rock without breaking a sweat because they learned a few martial arts skills, actually exist in reality.

They know it's not them but truly think some women are out there somewhere disproving the notion women are not as strong as men one karate kick at a time.

So Khelif will next box against the Thai boxer Janjaem Suwannapheng, who was promoted when Khelif was disqualified from the IBA world champs in 2023.