Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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A second thread for those who wish to continue the discussion.

Thread 1 can be found here...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

And that’s fine. If they won’t accept anything but the female category, they have to accept nothing at all.

What makes me particularly steamed up on this one, is a comment on the other thread pointing out that these two boxers could not compete among women in any other sport.

Yet there is nothing to stop them in this, perhaps the most dangerous sport.

Just looking at who Khelif is fighting next and shes from Thailand. It will take an opponent from a country with a lot of clout to get this stopped.

The other quarter finals for the welterweight division haven't been fought but its
Tapei v. Uzbekistan and then Germany v. China.

I hope if Khelif makes it through to the final its either Germany or China that also makes it through. I think they would both have a lot of clout to make a fuss about this

YES!!!
I said EXACTLY that to DH as we were watching. Never seen a woman do that chest beating snarling thing EVER.

That's the behaviour of a man.

are they are trying to normalise it?

Yes.

The argument that the Olympics, the Olympics, is inclusive is ludicrous. There are runners from places such as the US, Jamaica and Kenya who could seriously challenge for gold who don't even make the team because qualification is that tough. Sporting categories are by definition exclusive. That's why they are 'categories' and not a free-for-all.

I think what broke me watching that press conference earlier today was the feeling of humiliation at being expected to play dumb and go along with the pretence.

I mean, if you are a woman and you beat your chest, it kind of hurts because you are bashing your tits.

I agree.
I think the constant mentioning of "woman" and "she" at every opportunity was a way to rub the "dissenters" noses in it. As in, "there's nothing you can do about it, suck it up wims".

I may be totally jaded at this point though, it's entirely possible.
The cheering crowd and the fawning commentary made me want to fucking boke.

I wonder what the cheek swabs are checking for... must be for wimpunds.

The bbc really outdoing themselves here, quoting the Algerian coach:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c51yyd8g3ylo

The bloke’s pregnancy test was negative. Well I never. 🙄🙄🙄 this whole thing is farcical.

I think that’s unlikely. Everyone in the boxing world, one of the few sports that has Fairplayforwomen awarded ‘gold’ status for its trans and DSD policy, is outraged by this. I can’t imagine two experienced boxing commentators would feel any different.

This isn’t a boxing problem, It’s an IOC problem caused by them stripping the IBA of their responsibilities to regulate Olympic boxing.

I thought the IOC said the only requirement was to have "F" on your passport so what tests is this guy talking about? Is it standard to have a pregnancy test, does anyone know?

Is it standard to have a pregnancy test, does anyone know?

I don't know, but it sounds sensible, doesn't it?

What I don't get is how they justify the rules in some athetics events but not in all events in the Olympics when they don't seem to have done any testing in the other events to see if they're similarly susceptible to a lack of fair play based on DSD's.

This nonsense of every sport getting to make up their own rules is nonsense. Its leads to situations like this where certain disciplines have stuck their heads in the sand rather than come up with clear cut rules and then are shocked then theres a blow back

That's the fault of the IOC, though, who have decided to make up their own set of rules (or rather, lack of them) for boxing alone.

This is making me low/raging still,and now worse with posts on aibu saying "it's complicated" or,and I liked this one the best, "defining 'woman' is stupid anyway' ". I really hope the world comes back to sense in my lifetime

Agree the pregnancy test sounds reasonable (for women). Is the guy quoted in the BBC article trying to muddy the waters by suggesting there were other tests. I thought IOC definitely did not sex test so Khelif might have passed ALL the IOC tests because they don't require a sex test.

To me it makes sense for every sport to make its own rules. I don’t see why the IOC should get to set the rules for a wet Thursday evening junior athletics meet in Batley. We have national governing bodies, and world governing bodies that the national bodies are members of. And as we have seen here, when the IOC does set rules, as they have done for boxing in this Olympics, they fuck it up.

I agree it sounds like that. The full quote is very vague and unclear about what tests. I expect there may be some standard tests (perhaps drug tests?) done on arrival at the Olympic village. They presumably won’t be sex tests though as the IOC has been clear that’s not what counts, and it hasn’t done them since the 90s.

Here’s the full quote:

‘Yacine Arab, the sport manager of the Algeria National Olympic Committee, said the controversy around Khelif has been a "joke".

Some reports have taken the IBA statement that Khelif and Lin have XY chromosomes to speculate they might have differences of sexual development (DSD) like runner Caster Semenya.
Arab denied this.

Speaking to the BBC's Roan before Saturday's fight he said: "When she arrived at the village she did this test.

"Do you think if she was positive they would let her fight? Never. She did all the tests - even the tests for pregnancy. All the tests were negative.

"[The IBA] said she was positive and her testosterone is very, very high. Then the medical president of the IOC said that it's really normal in boxing that the athletes' testosterone is high. For all the girls it is the same. Imane is not alone in this case.

"The controversy is a joke. Everyone knows that Imane was born a girl. She has fought all her life as a girl. All the competitions she was a girl. When she was losing nobody talked about this."’

I agree it would make sense for female participants in certain sports to take a pregnancy test.

When I said its nonsense for every sport I meant every sport at the Olympics Games to have different/non-existent rules in relation to this. I'm not suggesting that the IOC should have responsibility over sports played not at Olympic level

”The IBA] said she was positive and her testosterone is very, very high. Then the medical president of the IOC said that it's really normal in boxing that the athletes' testosterone is high. For all the girls it is the same. Imane is not alone in this case”.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c51yyd8g3ylo

Does anyone know if it is true that,

“For all the girls it [really high testosterone] is the same” ? I hadn’t heard that before.

The rules have to be the same in Olympic and non-Olympic competition though, otherwise we end up with the situation we have with the boxing where athletes who are disqualified in non-Olympic competition are permitted to compete in the Olympics.

Where's the baby going to gestate? In a box?

I very much doubt it! I'd like to see his evidence for stating this.

They're just obfuscating again. Female boxers might have raised testosterone against the rest of the female population but it won't be in the male range.

The IOC have become very accomplished at describing testosterone in the normal male range as 'women with raised testosterone'.