The IOC: “ we don’t want a return to the bad old days of sex testing”

[InterrudelyUpted]

I want to give some really important context to this: it was a classic “throwing the baby out with the bathwater “ argument.

Of all the many types of DSDs that affect people born with XY chromosomes, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS) is one of the rare ones that confers no male puberty advantage at all. That’s because no matter how much testosterone may be circulating inside your endocrine system, your body is completely immune to it. People affected by this have zero male advantage, apart from possibly being a bit taller than average. They grow up looking completely female on the outside, with pretty typical female muscles and speed and strength and pelvis width and everything.

But CAIS people were used as an example of whataboutery to show the flaw in a straightforward argument that “all XY people have an advantage because of going through male puberty”.

It’s actually quite simple to separate out CAIS from other people with XY chromosomes, your genetic test comes back showing you have XY chromosomes but then they very quickly establish that you no receptors and therefore no male puberty and no male advantage. And CAIS women tend to be pretty shit at sports anyway due to the aforementioned lack of testosterone. But hey go, that’s where we are.

Can’t do sex testing in sports because it might theoretically offend a small bunch of people with a DSD who actually want to be left completely out of it anyway.

Let me try this, Thomas Bach.

"If the chromosome's a Y
He will ALWAYS be a guy"

You invited people to explain to you. So, I have. But .... you know this already, don't ya? You know full well, these boxers are men. And, at a time when VAWG is at a terrifying level and increasing, you sanction men to smash the faces of women for the world to see.

Do the decent thing and resign!

That’s not just a spokesperson. It’s Thomas Bach, the President, boss of the whole Olympics. His contempt and stupidity is beyond belief.

I think Seb Coe wants this job. I think he would actually listen on this. Unsurprisingly there has never been a woman IOC president 🙄

I think Seb Coe wants this job. I think he would actually listen on this. Unsurprisingly there has never been a woman IOC president

Aren't males with DSDs still eligible to compete in female athletics under his watch?

They’re stuck with a “reduced testosterone” rule I think, which is as good as they can do right now. I think he knows but is stuck as per the World Athletics legalities, but if he was in charge of the IOC he could mandate different rules (if he got the job when people know this and didn’t fight him on it if he got the job).

'some want to own the definition of woman'

Well yes, women do, we don't want to have to include men in the definition. Why not consult experts if it's just too tricky? Call Prof. Winston I'm sure he could give you a workable solution.

Can it really be harder to sort people into two sex categories correctly than it is to to sort Paralympians with multiple different impairments into fair and safe groups?

Oh and the reason those boxers have previously completed as women is because your organisation declined to carry out any testing or lay down any criteria beyond they say so.

Do we think Mark Adams has said bugger this for a game of soldiers I'm not going out there again, someone on a higher pay grade will have to deal with this shit?

Thomas Bach and I are from the same town. My very sporty family used to cheer him on through all the his fencing competitions. I'm utterly ashamed the fecking idiot is a fellow Wuerzburger.

Unsurprisingly there has never been a woman IOC president

A future opportunity for the male women when they've physically finished destroying female sport.

sorry, Ig, I found the article and posted it on another thread thinking it was this thread. My brain is running too hot at the moment, my apologies.

ww.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

From the article "At the time of testing, all female athletes at the Atlanta Games were offered a questionnaire written in both English and French asking whether in their view testing of females should be continued in future Olympics and whether or not they were made anxious by the testing procedure.18Of the 928 athletes who responded, 82% felt that testing should be continued and 94% indicated that they were not made anxious by the procedure. Forty-six athletes were made "anxious" by the testing requirements that preceded their competitive events. No males were found to masquerade as females, and all females who were found to be SRY positive competed. While a similar proportion of females failed the test as in previous Olympics (Table 2), it is noteworthy that on this occasion no false positive tests were found and no athlete was barred from competition.'

So, 82% of the women answered that they felt sex testing should continue when surveyed at the 1996 Olympics. This was ignored.

In 1996, 8 of the 'female' competitors were found to have a DSD. 7 were CAIS and 1 was 5ARD. This was a rate of 1 in 423 and hence you will see it said that CAIS athletes are found in higher proportions in the female sports categories than in society in general. That rate is significantly higher than the general population. I can only think though that the lower 5ARD number might have been due to them being screened out so much previously? I don't know, the proportion of the males diagnosed with CAIS to 5ARD may be similar still.

Thanks @Helleofabore I will have a read of the link.
How very unsurprising that the wishes of female athletes got ignored.

"some want to own the definition of woman'"

Tell me he didn't say this!

(I'm afraid my blood pressure will do for me if I actually watch that clip).

many more statements like this and the frantic un-saying of things, and he's going to bloody hang himself.

Can I just say a big thank you to all the women posting the facts, statistics, and statements to give all the background to this.

Proper evidence in the teeth of clowns running around squirting water from their buttonholes.

He really did 🤬

Kinell.

I can't wait for Janice Turner to get hold of that.

If the president of the IOC is actually going to claim that definitions are subjective and anyone can own them, there's not a journalist in the land who wouldn't be able to run with that for all eternity.

He seemed quite shocked and upset that some people want woman to mean woman, how very dare we!

Isn't it just? 🤬🤬🤬

Seconded.

Exactly, sex testing is much much less invasive than drug testing- and that is going to continue.

Exactly, sex testing is much much less invasive than drug testing- and that is going to continue.

tbf, it's less invasive than being body scanned and patted down when travelling through some airports.

And sex testing is one and done - for life.

What???? you mean people can't change sex? Burn the heretic.

I love it when a thread takes an educational turn.

Some of the bilge I saw spouted on another forum this morning left me feeling as if every drop of blood in my body had been passed through a Soda Stream.

Happy to help 😁

So the actual athletes taking one voting to keep it by an overwheling majority.

WHY?

Why was it import to them?