The IOC: “ we don’t want a return to the bad old days of sex testing”

[InterrudelyUpted]

I want to give some really important context to this: it was a classic “throwing the baby out with the bathwater “ argument.

Of all the many types of DSDs that affect people born with XY chromosomes, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS) is one of the rare ones that confers no male puberty advantage at all. That’s because no matter how much testosterone may be circulating inside your endocrine system, your body is completely immune to it. People affected by this have zero male advantage, apart from possibly being a bit taller than average. They grow up looking completely female on the outside, with pretty typical female muscles and speed and strength and pelvis width and everything.

But CAIS people were used as an example of whataboutery to show the flaw in a straightforward argument that “all XY people have an advantage because of going through male puberty”.

It’s actually quite simple to separate out CAIS from other people with XY chromosomes, your genetic test comes back showing you have XY chromosomes but then they very quickly establish that you no receptors and therefore no male puberty and no male advantage. And CAIS women tend to be pretty shit at sports anyway due to the aforementioned lack of testosterone. But hey go, that’s where we are.

Can’t do sex testing in sports because it might theoretically offend a small bunch of people with a DSD who actually want to be left completely out of it anyway.

This is a really good example of my main problem with all of this shit (due to being a stubborn and awkward fucker), the sheer authoritarianism of it all.

This guy is genuinely peeved that people are refusing to do as they're told and agree that these two people who are clearly men are women. This whole movement is about people in positions of power wanting to exercise that power over others by making them agree to patent bullshit.

and as for his little whinge about culture wars - you started it you absolute numpty. You attempted to change the definition of 'woman' when the sex test was removed. You don't get to hit someone and then say 'you are starting a war' when they hit back.

gah!

Agree. I've never been a sporty type but a few years back I took up lifting weights and I've been doing it long enough to chart how my strength and stamina fluctuates with hormones. I struggle the week before my period and during my period there's 2-3 days I cannot work out at all. I have to say I was quite surprised when I could feel in real time how my cycle impacted my ability.

I'm an almost 50 yr old woman in peri menopause so well past the age of sporting retirement and thinking back these effects wouldn't have been as pronounced in my teens and twenties or even thirties.

Every woman is different though and there are women greatly impacted in early life although I wouldn't be surprised if problem periods at an early age precludes women from ever starting in competitive sports in the first place. Sport could well be dominated already by young women who have light, fairly uncomplicated periods. Not sure how much research has been done on this?

So we might already have a sliding scale going from difficult periods to no periods and everything in between that dictates how likely a young girl/woman is to pursue professional sport. This would put someone with CAIS at an advantage.

I think it must even play into mindset and mental prep. I worry about leakage at the gym and nobody is paying any attention to me.

CAIS does confer advantage.

They are average taller than xx females.

Their pelvises don't contain female reproductive organs.

They don't have the disadvantages that come with menstruation.

They don't need to use contraceptives.

They aren't disadvantaged by pregnancy/childbirth/breastfeeding.

They have less body hair so dont need to remove it first sports with scant outfits.

CAIS in the female population is 1 in 20,000

CAIS in female athletes is 1 in 420.

If a person with the DSD CAIS is xy does this mean that as a child they will have the same q angle as a boy and not a girl? If that is the case, it will convey an advantage even without male puberty.

This is a really good example of my main problem with all of this shit (due to being a stubborn and awkward fucker), the sheer authoritarianism of it all.

This guy is genuinely peeved that people are refusing to do as they're told and agree that these two people who are clearly men are women. This whole movement is about people in positions of power wanting to exercise that power over others by making them agree to patent bullshit.

and as for his little whinge about culture wars - you started it you absolute numpty. You attempted to change the definition of 'woman' when the sex test was removed. You don't get to hit someone and then say 'you are starting a war' when they hit back.

Yes, in a nutshell!

The entire point of removing the sex swab test was to enable some men to compete in women's sport. There is no other explanation.

which I think explains to some extent the IOC's attitude. Men playing against women was the point. They just didn't really think it through (because women's sport isn't very important?), so didn't anticipate men beating women up in Olympic boxing and quite how that would go across with average people who are very clear about there being 2 sexes and how babies are made.

What's happening now is what they wanted to happen (apart from the bit where everybody is talking about it). It's such a fascinating example of what happens when you start from a fundamentally incorrect principle, namely that it's essential that some men should be allowed to complete in women's sport.

I'm a big fan of Tim Harford's Cautionary Tales, about how organisational culture can bring disaster. Apart from the fact that it would be career ending for poor old Tim, this would be such a good case study.

Yes, practically every female athlete currently in Paris will have looked at the schedule, considered their cycle, and figured out, probably months in advance how they were going to manage it for their actual event. And that’s not even considering their training to make sure it doesn’t interfere with peaking then tapering if relevant.

Even the archers and shooters possibly. There’s a small number of women who are in their 50s and 60s.

Anyone with CAIS doesn’t have to give this a moment’s thought, just like men.

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

I agree with the first part of your post but sadly have to disagree about them not thinking through the implications.

Men in women's boxing is the point. It's a vindication of the idea that gender identity matters more than sex - that sex is irrelevant even in sport. The effect on women is not a factor because the boxers are women in the only way that matters to the IOC. The problem, as they see it, is the screechy women who won't shut up.
In their eyes, the lying and gaslighting is justified because they are doing the right thing.

Edited to tag in poster

So many VSD advocates have argued that they're being used as a wedge in a political power game that doesn't care about them.

🎯

Yes, as someone who used to have horrific, week long blood baths on a monthly basis, aneamic and lacking energy the week before, during and after, I can't imagine the stress of facing an important sporting event! I expect they're all expected to be on the pill or have coils fitted to see if that minimises bleeds. Research in this area would be interesting!

So grateful for my hysterectomy at times!

So grateful for my hysterectomy at times!
It must be amazing to be treated as a man by the "it's the equipment that counts" brigade. Do you get paid more now?

It may have already been mentioned but there was a fascinating programme on R4 a few months back called 28 days. All about how the monthly cycle affects everything we do. One I listened to was about which type of exercise to do at which point in your cycle.

Something that only affects the XXs.

I wish!!

It's my fault probably. I should have got them to take my ovaries too. Maybe that would have swung the pay check.

It's ironic that as the same time as biological sex is being sidelined from women's sports and downgraded in favour of 'gender', there is a growing body of research on the effects of the menstrual cycle on women in sport:
The effect of the menstrual cycle on physical performance is being increasingly recognised as a key consideration for women’s sport and a critical field for further research.
The Impact of Menstrual Cycle Phase on Athletes’ Performance: A Narrative Review - PMC (nih.gov)

Bring it on!