The IOC: “ we don’t want a return to the bad old days of sex testing”

[InterrudelyUpted]

I want to give some really important context to this: it was a classic “throwing the baby out with the bathwater “ argument.

Of all the many types of DSDs that affect people born with XY chromosomes, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS) is one of the rare ones that confers no male puberty advantage at all. That’s because no matter how much testosterone may be circulating inside your endocrine system, your body is completely immune to it. People affected by this have zero male advantage, apart from possibly being a bit taller than average. They grow up looking completely female on the outside, with pretty typical female muscles and speed and strength and pelvis width and everything.

But CAIS people were used as an example of whataboutery to show the flaw in a straightforward argument that “all XY people have an advantage because of going through male puberty”.

It’s actually quite simple to separate out CAIS from other people with XY chromosomes, your genetic test comes back showing you have XY chromosomes but then they very quickly establish that you no receptors and therefore no male puberty and no male advantage. And CAIS women tend to be pretty shit at sports anyway due to the aforementioned lack of testosterone. But hey go, that’s where we are.

Can’t do sex testing in sports because it might theoretically offend a small bunch of people with a DSD who actually want to be left completely out of it anyway.

IOC....yes we do.

Maybe we should stop weighing people for weight categories too. Obviously a person's word is worth more than an accurate measure.

If the IOC spoke to women (especially elite women athletes) they'd find that women are very keen on safe and fair single sex sports. But as they only commune with all the trans activist groups, of course they only hear (and obey) the demands of the "let's dismantle women's sports" zealots.

I think Sharron Davies probably knows a thing or two about the Olympics and 'the bad old days of sex testing' and here's her view:

'How anyone looks should not be the issue. A simple sex screening test. Took me 2 mins in 1976. Cotton bud wiped on the inside of your cheek. Female athletes voted 82% in favour of keeping it in 1996. The IOC still stopped it so why ask?'

https://x.com/sharrond62/status/1819076377234362602

I feel like we’ve stepped into a parallel universe.

Exactly. They should bring back sex testing – it’s a simple cheek swab.

My point is that any argument for exceptions that disprove the rule shouldn’t have stopped the testing, we are smarter than this.

How can a male have zero male advantage? Do you have any evidence that people with CAIS have zero advantage over females?

Those were the GOOD old days, when truth won out over idiocy, and it would be far better to return to them.

@AthenaBasil the clue is in the name – they are completely insensitive to androgens. ie: all
male hormones.

...but they do not go through female puberty either?

@Shortshriftandlethal you might be thinking of some other DSDs? Particularly whatever it is that the Algerian boxer has - probably 5-AR?

thats not the case for CAIS. At puberty the testosterone has absolutely zero effect. Adult women with CAIS have a body including a vulva and vagina that looks exactly like any regular female body.

My point is that one very small segment of DSD’s not having any male puberty advantage doesn’t mean we should throw out all sex testing.

It’s really hard for regular people to understand all the different DSDs as most media is more interested in being sensitive to people’s feelings than explaining things clearly. Reading about the controversial boxers in the female boxing you’re never told that they have XY chromosomes in lots of articles.
I’m no biologist I was just curious that if those with CAIS are taller than the average female likes males are if there are other advantages.

@Shortshriftandlethal thanks to the pituitary gland which pumps out small but sufficient amounts of oestrogen (for both men and women), CAIS girls develop breasts and hips and waist and look completely indistinguishable from any other adult woman just with a bit less pubic hair because that’s a testosterone thing.

@AthenaBasil they tend to be taller because their puberty doesn’t kick in until later often not until they go to the doctors at 15 or 16 asking why their periods haven’t started and the doctor puts them on oestrogen tablets – so they just have another two or three years of growing when most girls slow/stop growing around the age their period starts. Bone structure, especially facial bone structure looks just like normal women’s.

Ah,the bad old days of sex testing;when men were men and women hadn't been invented.

Why are the days of sex testing to confirm an athletes eligibility in their sex class "the bad old days"? Unless there's a concerted effort to allow men into women's sports that is. Couldn't be that, surely 🙄

Yep I've been trying to figure out why there isn't a blanket to enter the female category cheek swab with the ability to do follow up tests on anyone who fails but feels they have a case to be included. So if you have XY result on a chromosome test you can then request further tests if you believe they will show you haven't either produced or processed testosterone.
But in the interest of safety and fairness anyone who has experienced any degree of male puberty should not be in the female category.

You're quite right, @BodyKeepingScore, that we should ask very simple questions such as 'why?' or 'why not?', 'in what way was that bad and for whom?' I've had it with thinking that people in authority know what they're doing.

@BodyKeepingScore that’s the quote from Mark Adams, the spokesman from the IOC. He’s a dick and he’s wrong, and I hope I’ve helped explain why 🏅

I would agree that when sex testing was essentially a naked parade it was the bad old days but a cheeky swab not so much.

IOC, yes we do.

Not sex testing benefits men and enables them to disadvantage, oppress, coerce and actually physically injure women through the medium of sport.

Here's some women with CAIS. If they have advantages (tall, no periods), they pale into insignificance compared to men with 5-ard. If they introduced a dna test but then gave the CAIS individuals a pass, other competitors would be massively better off. And it's simple! And they wouldn't have to publicise anyone's CAIS status (or any other medical details about anybody). Why are they making such a meal of it?

I suspect that lots of people assume that sex tests for athletes still comprise physical checks of the naked body and those in power aren't in any hurry to disabuse the public of that.

Are we really pretending that not having 1+ weeks a month affected by menstruation / PMPD isn’t an advantage? I’m not an athlete but I know I’d be further up the career ladder had I never had to contend with periods (now that I’m over 40 they are basically incapacitating me 2 weeks every month).

By not going back to the 'bad old days' of sex testing the IOC is taking us even further back to the 'bad old days' when women were ignored and counted for nothing.