The IOC: “ we don’t want a return to the bad old days of sex testing”

[InterrudelyUpted]

I want to give some really important context to this: it was a classic “throwing the baby out with the bathwater “ argument.

Of all the many types of DSDs that affect people born with XY chromosomes, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS) is one of the rare ones that confers no male puberty advantage at all. That’s because no matter how much testosterone may be circulating inside your endocrine system, your body is completely immune to it. People affected by this have zero male advantage, apart from possibly being a bit taller than average. They grow up looking completely female on the outside, with pretty typical female muscles and speed and strength and pelvis width and everything.

But CAIS people were used as an example of whataboutery to show the flaw in a straightforward argument that “all XY people have an advantage because of going through male puberty”.

It’s actually quite simple to separate out CAIS from other people with XY chromosomes, your genetic test comes back showing you have XY chromosomes but then they very quickly establish that you no receptors and therefore no male puberty and no male advantage. And CAIS women tend to be pretty shit at sports anyway due to the aforementioned lack of testosterone. But hey go, that’s where we are.

Can’t do sex testing in sports because it might theoretically offend a small bunch of people with a DSD who actually want to be left completely out of it anyway.

I think it's more that using CAIS as an excuse lets in the much more advantaged individuals who've gone through male puberty. Yes, there's a debate to be had about CAIS, but we fall at the first hurdle, and the debate never happens.

I thought that individuals with CAIS are thought to have a sporting advantage over 46 XY women. They are over-represented in elite sports compared with in the general population. See discussion here x.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1070098298885890050

Coming to an Olympics near you soon 'ladies it's back to running no further than 400m for you, don't you know your wombs could fall out?'
If you didn't get all above yourselves and demand to be allowed all the sports you wouldn't be in the boxing ring to get hit by men, so you brought it on yourselves really.

My understanding is that CAIS individuals are over represented in elite sports compared to the general population because not all advantages of the y chromosome are affected by testosterone.

Heard the bloke (I think Mark Adams?) on ITV News bleating on about ''witch hunts''.

Well sex testing athletes would put an end to ''witch hunts'' whilst proving the IOC take women's safety and fairness seriously, wouldn't it?

With no sex testing, no testosterone testing, making out that a passport is the most important thing when it comes to participating in women's boxing, and pretending that having a one-off cheek swab is oh so humiliating and degrading, I think people can be forgiven for thinking that the IOC just don't give a shit about males battering women on their watch.

@jellycat I think she admits further down this thread that she has slightly confused CAIS with PAIS (Partial AiS). They are night and day, nothing at all in common. PAIS is only about 10% of AIS people fortunately because it’s a God awful condition of partial androgenisation. So you get quite a lot of male puberty, but probably not a very functional penis and all sorts of functional problems. They are what people typically think of when they think of intersex/hermaphrodites. And they deserve our empathy. But they are completely different to CAIS who are just pretty ordinary women in looks, majority heterosexual, really nothing to notice and want a quiet life.

Which is ironic because the most problematic candidates have superficially female genitalia anyway. That's why they were incorrectly registered at birth.

World Athletics has a comprehensive code for this. The code applies to 46XY DSD individuals who produce and respond to T. It would be perfect if the next words were 'may not compete in the women's category'.

Instead, they require them to endure long term androgen blockade, which does not reverse male puberty, and is bad for their health.

Having these rules incentivises promoters to seek out young people with DSDs and could even disincentivise appropriate medical and social response to DSDs.

Yep humiliating and inconclusive.

What I really don't understand is what does the IOC have to gain by allowing DSD men to continue in women's sports?
Obvs all that stuff about witch hunts and 'bad old days' was just bluster to cover up their real motives.
The only thing I can think of is that they are receiving back-hand bribes from the criminal coaches who have scouted the DSD men and no-one wants the gravy train to stop or to lose their investment.

Any other theories?

Are they just completely stupid or totally corrupt?
Wheres the money trail?

Ha didnt see your post, I asked the same question, where is the money trail going and coming from?
Certainly it would explain their irrational defensiveness and bluster.

My head is completely frazzled from reading all the DSD information. And all the hate against JKR.

If only there were people whose job it is to investigate this stuff.

We could call them journalists.

😂😂

The IOC don't want any sex testing because they want to eradicate sex as the basis of a category.
Taken from Science of Sport podcast: their top two sport policy priorities are

1. inclusion
2. avoiding harm to anyone's identity

They have drunk the Kool-Aid. This situation with the boxers is a good thing in their eyes. Exposing women to harm barely registers as a problem because the aim of inclusion is so noble. They will not back down because they are absolutely intent on putting men into women's sports.

Edited for better formatting

I cannot answer to the stupidity or corruption but the IOC is clearly morally bankrupt.

Does that go for the Paralympics too? No more 'bad old days' of ascertaining whether a person qualifies as disabled? No more 'bad old days' of categorising level of disability? It can all be done by how one identifies - look forward to seeing how that pans out.

Well they are struggling to find hosts for future games so halving costs might encourage more bids.

From another poster on another thread
"This is the IBA statement at the time they banned them
https://www.iba.sport/news/statement-made-by-the-international-boxing-association-regarding-athletes-disqualifications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/

Note the closing sentence

For clarification on why the IOC permits athletes with competitive advantages to compete in their events, we urge interested parties to seek answers directly from the IOC."

How cool is that, clearly they know whats going on and they are having none of it.
There are so many bodies in sport, probably all vying for funds.
This has to be about the money.

He was Starmer’s best man according to the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/mark-adams-official-ioc-olympics-boxing-row-starmer-friend/

And just how are these 'good days'? Yesterday (and this afternoon) wasn't for female sport.

I’d put money on most female athletes wanting to return to the bad old days of sex testing.

The "bad old days of sex testing" shtick seems to be flavour of the month right now. NPR together with Canadian broadcasting have just come out with a six-part podcast series partially anchored around Christine Mboma and exploring "100 years" of sex testing. I've only heard the trailer speaking about "female" athletes so far - I need to find a trip where I don't risk running the car off the road in sheer exasperation. But it's probably worth having a listen if only to be better armed.

www.npr.org/2024/07/12/g-s1-8943/npr-embedded-cbc-testing-in-elite-sports-tested-podcast

Don't WADA's doping checks involve a witnessed urine sample or blood draw? They're more frequent and invasive than a one-off cheek swab…

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/athletes-support-personnel/anti-doping-process

Yes. You have to pee in the presence of a monitor.