Help me present evidence to my son

[AlbertaWildRose]

My DS is 18 and heavy into the TWAW belief. He thinks JK Rowling is a despicable human being for her position and thinks that women should have no problem with all of this, and it's all just "scare-mongering" to say otherwise. Whenever I try to talk to him about this I end up getting too emotional to be rational. I really want to present him with evidence that this movement is not good for women - please help direct me to some good resources. Thank you.

Oh really, everything she says on her pet subject has a dog whistle or actual misgendering insult. She sponsored legal action to remove any legal value of transitioning, the ultimate goal of many trans women in the world is to get a grc. The added hatred makes her look a nutter to right minded people.

The FWS action in the Supreme Court could make a legal female with a grc and an anatomical female body and an endocrinological female system back into a male in law.

that is born of hatred

that is what her millions are trying to influence

that is the epitome of anti transgender

I feel your frustration and concern but I don’t know this individual or if they are taking the piss

i have no issues with trans women in the ladies if they want to queue longer

"a legal female with a grc and an anatomical female body and an endocrinological female system back into a male in law."

No male with a GRC has an "anatomical female body" nor an "endocrinological female system". A surgically altered male body is still male. Taking cross sex hormones does not change your endocrinological system. You don't need to have had surgery nor take cross sex hormones to get a GRC.

That's great that you have no issue with men in female only spaces. However a lot of women do.

Maybe he should read this for balance against the transphobia against trans women who all mums should support

www.them.us/story/trans-nonbinary-people-top-surgey-over-45-body-week?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dhfacebook&utm_content=null&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2HQByD1SnD6Nev6cjliKy2qacjLdHR9bQQ90eJX1qUzgiVppI7Vb_Ehn4_aem_8rLkQoaAowWX77Kf7itBfw

I have read all her tweets. There is nothing hateful there. She has said more than once that she wishes trans people to have safe and healthy lives.

Whenever someone claims she has posted hateful comments and is asked to point to examples they never do.

And when has she EVER promoted violence?

She's never promoted violence against anyone at all, it's a vile, slanderous lie.

i think i might be a bit more comfortable with this because i'm based in brighton most of the time, but its not unusual to have toilets marked "urinals", "toilet"(single cubicles), "womens"
that doesn't tend to cause upset because the men tend to use the urinals (and any TW/non-binary if they have a penis) and if women are concerned about TW using the women's then they also have the option of the single cubicles or if they dont have an issue then you can queue up in the women's with everyone. I dunno, it works in Brighton, ive never known anyone be annoyed by it. Lots of LGBTQ clubs also just have toilets for everyone, pretty easy in a club where there's an attendant present all night.

Same as some gyms have 3 changing rooms for men, women and anyone (the "anyone" is also single cubicles off a corridor)

i think it can be done quite sensitively if there's some thought put in?

So if everything she posts is hateful, you’ll have no trouble finding just one thing she has said that is hateful and explaining to us why it’s hateful.

Ive answered this elsewhere but every time she calls trans women misogynistic or male fantasists that instilled misery and fear in trans women everywhere

See other answers you’re boring me

I wonder whether some posters, however flowery or fruitful they may be, are simply indulging in a version of the MN occupation of Taking Up Scammers' Time On The Phone so they won't be scamming other people. Or in this case, taking up our time and energy chasing their golden balls. Presumably they enjoy this/are getting something out of it.

But again, here we are. This time talking about whether or not JKR is transphobic - although as usual that may be useful for the lurkers - rather than the thread subject of how do we talk to our sons and daughters about this.

Funny - on last week's The Mess We're In podcast, Helen Staniland was talking about how, when pressed for evidence, TAs so often default to "I've already answered". "Look at my posts", etc.

So true and worth a reminder, ta.

If everything she says on Twitter is transphobic then it should be super easy for you to link to just one of these transphobic tweets so we can all discuss it here. I'm not sure why you are refusing to do this.

That's a lie. We all know why you will not do this.

Thank you for this.

When has she called trans women, as a category, misogynistic? Link, please.

Or has she accused individuals of being misogynistic? In which case, please link to an example so we can assess the circumstances in which she said it.

It's not transphobic to call someone out for being misogynistic if they are being misogynistic. Even if that person happens to identify as trans.

I wouldn't expect it to an issue in a LGBT club though.

My issue is how do we keep men out of female only spaces. The reality is a lot of public buildings literally have 2 spaces 1 for men and 1 for women. I absolutely agree with providing a 3rd space if all men who identify as not men will use it and stay out of female only spaces. Given what we hear from the TRA/MRA this won't and does not happen. A poster already mentioned that IW wouldn't use a third space and went in search of a female space.

I think it's great to be inclusive and kind but we need to be realistic and think about things logically.

My issue is how do we keep men out of female only spaces. The reality is a lot of public buildings literally have 2 spaces 1 for men and 1 for women. I absolutely agree with providing a 3rd space if all men who identify as not men will use it and stay out of female only spaces. Given what we hear from the TRA/MRA this won't and does not happen. A poster already mentioned that IW wouldn't use a third space and went in search of a female space.

I think it's great to be inclusive and kind but we need to be realistic and think about things logically.

Yes, exactly. And naivety about the group in question, either genuine or feigned, isn't helpful. This isn't going away and encouraging males to ignore women's rights to privacy and dignity just inflames the situation and enables poor behaviour.

What is a lie? Why add that and cross it off.

Have you or have you not seen all her tweets and comments saying trans women are misogynistic and male fantasists and misgendering them and that trans women are not women and do you deny her sponsorship of legal action to destroy trans rights??? There a dozens go look if you are really interested.

I certainly have not seen you post any of her allegedly transphobic tweets in this thread.

The reason you haven't done so is because you can't. If you could, you would.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/jk-rowling-imane-khelif-olympics-boxer-gender-controversy-angela-carini-1236092812/amp/

it’s her favourite word for anything gender variant

Well they aren't women. But do post her tweets where she says they are all "misogynistic and male fantasists". And no I'm not going looking, you bring proof.

The reason you haven't done so is because you can't. If you could, you would.

Yes. Oh well.

OK, so for ease of reference, this is the tweet you're objecting to, is it?

Why is it transphobic?

Explain it like I'm five.