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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me present evidence to my son

595 replies

AlbertaWildRose · 02/08/2024 00:17

My DS is 18 and heavy into the TWAW belief. He thinks JK Rowling is a despicable human being for her position and thinks that women should have no problem with all of this, and it's all just "scare-mongering" to say otherwise. Whenever I try to talk to him about this I end up getting too emotional to be rational. I really want to present him with evidence that this movement is not good for women - please help direct me to some good resources. Thank you.

OP posts:
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7
RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 02/08/2024 17:07

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 16:43

Don’t be silly it undermines you and demeans women and humanity for that matter

What is silly about my questions?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 17:09

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:05

What do you mean this isn’t about me?
what are you on about I don’t care?
how am
i to blame for the courts?

You're not to blame for the courts. People are asking you whether you agree with the approach that has sometimes been adopted in the last, i.e. that a female rape survivor should be forced to refer to her rapist as "she" in court.

There are differing views on this.

What is your view on it?

BackToLurk · 02/08/2024 17:10

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:06

It was a factual but small part of a conversation you are making into something else

So you have the references then

Snowypeaks · 02/08/2024 17:11

Someone's having a laugh.
Walls, nails, jelly.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 02/08/2024 17:11

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 16:54

So you are a man then

Yes, I am.

Gcn · 02/08/2024 17:11

The only thing all trans identifying men have in common is that they are men. What is female about a "trans woman"?

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:14

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 17:07

Why is it disgusting to ask this question?

It is a serious enough question that judges have made rulings on this issue in the past, and the bench book has now been updated to give judges guidance about the proper conduct to observe in court.

So when a rape victim is testifying against her rapist in court, should she be forced to refer to him as "she" if that's how he claims to identify? Yes or no?

Even MN admin think you go too far and I’ve answered it not that I want any more contact with you. I was warned about you. I thought I would try to be civil. It’s wasted on you.
Haters gonna hate. Have a nice life.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:16

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 02/08/2024 17:07

What is silly about my questions?

If you cannot see it you are insane or malicious either way I won’t talk with you anymore

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:17

Snowypeaks · 02/08/2024 17:11

Someone's having a laugh.
Walls, nails, jelly.

Sorry I don’t talk gen z or even millennial

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 17:18

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:14

Even MN admin think you go too far and I’ve answered it not that I want any more contact with you. I was warned about you. I thought I would try to be civil. It’s wasted on you.
Haters gonna hate. Have a nice life.

What do you mean they think I've gone too far? Have I had a post deleted? I can see that you have had several deleted.

I almost never report posts.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:21

SilenceInside · 02/08/2024 14:13

"a legal female with a grc and an anatomical female body and an endocrinological female system back into a male in law."

No male with a GRC has an "anatomical female body" nor an "endocrinological female system". A surgically altered male body is still male. Taking cross sex hormones does not change your endocrinological system. You don't need to have had surgery nor take cross sex hormones to get a GRC.

Well even if there were full womb and uterus transplants with ovaries the lot most here would hate the original amab forever

all a tw can do is try and be happy

its not a mental illness and all the worlds proper medical institutions recognise it including the WHO and AMA

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:22

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 17:18

What do you mean they think I've gone too far? Have I had a post deleted? I can see that you have had several deleted.

I almost never report posts.

I haven’t had a post deleted

Waitwhat23 · 02/08/2024 17:22

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 02/08/2024 14:20

i think i might be a bit more comfortable with this because i'm based in brighton most of the time, but its not unusual to have toilets marked "urinals", "toilet"(single cubicles), "womens"
that doesn't tend to cause upset because the men tend to use the urinals (and any TW/non-binary if they have a penis) and if women are concerned about TW using the women's then they also have the option of the single cubicles or if they dont have an issue then you can queue up in the women's with everyone. I dunno, it works in Brighton, ive never known anyone be annoyed by it. Lots of LGBTQ clubs also just have toilets for everyone, pretty easy in a club where there's an attendant present all night.

Same as some gyms have 3 changing rooms for men, women and anyone (the "anyone" is also single cubicles off a corridor)

i think it can be done quite sensitively if there's some thought put in?

It's actually interesting that you mention Brighton given the situation there regarding rape crisis services. The I am Sarah case concerns a rape survivor in Brighton requesting one, singular female single sex group, to go alongside the current women's (mixed sex) group, men's group and a group for those who are trans/non binary. It was refused.

In the same way, rape crisis services in Scotland who receive funding from the Scottish Government do not offer single sex rape crisis services. In fact, there was no such provision in Edinburgh and the Lothians until JKR set up and fully funded Beira's Place for which she still gets unbelievable amounts of abuse.

And that's not even getting into ERCC's awful behaviour which was exposed at the latest Employment Tribunal.

I agree your previous posts that in terms of rape crisis services and domestic abuse shelters etc that there should be both mixed sex and single sex service in order to meet all group's needs.

But this isn't currently happening. What is happening is that women who require single sex services but are unable to access them are self excluding from services they need.

Mmmnotsure · 02/08/2024 17:23

Aaaaanyway, the court thing might be useful for people's sons as something to think about.

What if one of your friends was forced to call her rapist 'she' and say she'd been raped by a 'woman' with 'her penis' when she knew with every fibre of her being that she'd been raped by a man? Would you tell your friend that of course her rapist was a woman?

What if one of your friends was raped and then found she had to talk it in front of someone with a male body and a male voice otherwise she couldn't access any help, even though every time he spoke she panicked and got flashbacks to the last time a strange male talked about that subject.

MoveToParis · 02/08/2024 17:33

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 02/08/2024 06:27

good question - no i don't believe that trans women who are jailed for sexual offences should be housed in low security prisons with women (but thankfully they arent! they have supervision orders, etc as pat of the risk assessments made when they are admitted) But yes, i actually don't have a problem with trans women in for non violent crimes being in women's prisons. i know that will be in opposition to a lot of people here.
I also dont have a massive issue with some refuges working with trans women, when there are also single sex refuges in the same area.

But what is the basis for including trans women without a violent/sexual conviction share with women, but excluding men - for clarity I will use the activist term cis-men? Let’s say someone with a tax evasion conviction or driving offences?

What about those on remand, or those without convictions but who would provoke a Clare’s Law response. What about coercive control?

Do you acknowledge that regardless of your own position, people can have a considered and compassionate view which is not the sales as yours, and who feel that you don’t have the right to offer up other women’s consent?

Zita60 · 02/08/2024 17:33

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:23

Ive answered this elsewhere but every time she calls trans women misogynistic or male fantasists that instilled misery and fear in trans women everywhere

Transwomen who violate women's spaces are misogynistic.

Male fantasists? Well, they are. They are male, but think they are women. If they were really secure in their belief that they were women, they wouldn't care if a few million women disagreed about that.

If someone demands that everyone else share their belief otherwise they will be miserable, that's a bit silly. They have no right to demand that the rest of us agree with them.

ApocalipstickNow · 02/08/2024 17:33

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:22

I haven’t had a post deleted

Yes you have. In the page before you wrote this.

Snowypeaks · 02/08/2024 17:34

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:17

Sorry I don’t talk gen z or even millennial

Just as well, since I wasn't talking to you! 😃

Zita60 · 02/08/2024 17:36

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:24

See other answers you’re boring me

Well, I'm terribly sorry that my desire for women's rights and safety is boring you. You still haven't provided any examples of what JKR has said that I can find.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 02/08/2024 17:46

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:02

Not from you clearly.
you are a man aren’t you?
bullying is better left to the women on here they are so much better at twisting words

They will be completely safe from me wherever they pee as I don't hate transgender people and wouldn't hit them even if I did, but they won't ever find me in the ladies' loos.

I would definitely appreciate it if people stopped twisting words. We all used to know what they meant, but the trans identity movement has tried to unilaterally redefine several, causing confusion and resentment in equal measure, and making it really difficult for people to discuss anything gender related. The worst trick was to redefine the expression of physical reality as hatred.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:48

Zita60 · 02/08/2024 17:33

Transwomen who violate women's spaces are misogynistic.

Male fantasists? Well, they are. They are male, but think they are women. If they were really secure in their belief that they were women, they wouldn't care if a few million women disagreed about that.

If someone demands that everyone else share their belief otherwise they will be miserable, that's a bit silly. They have no right to demand that the rest of us agree with them.

Ok. I don’t think it is a reasoned view but thank you for being adult about it.

I don’t want to know what you mean by violate but if you mean using any single sex space the implication is that trans men with beards and cocks will be in the ladies with your wife and daughters.

Beachcomber · 02/08/2024 17:48

Coming back to the OP of this thread.

I'm lucky enough to have family and most friends who agree with me that transgenderism is a dangerous ideology and that trans medecine is not evidence based and is the biggest medical scandal of our time which has done (and is still doing) untold harm.

However I do have some friends who are still captured.

I avoid the subject with those friends and instead put my energy into useful actions such as supporting people who are speaking out and contacting institutions that can actually make a difference.

Also whenever I'm feeling frustrated or hopeless about where we are with all this I read or listen to the people who are doing brilliant work to combat the madness.

I highly recommend Helen Joyce's book and the podcasters who have been brave enough to give her a platform.

It makes me feel so much better and positive to know that there are sensible, brilliant people who are doing the hard and important work of turning the tide.

This will pass. At the moment we are still in the midst of massive social contagion and ideological capture. But the tide is turning.

At the moment much of the general public still thinks that transgenderism is a civil rights movement akin to gay rights. But people are starting to sit up and take notice and the harms done are so terrible that there is no getting away from them.

In my opinion what we need to do currently is fight against the sterilising of children and the removal of their healthy body parts. We need to do that in order to stop the damage and also to expose these interventions as gay conversion and human rights abuse. It has to stop because it is so so terrible. It is also (due to its awfulness) what will make the whole house of cards come tumbling down.

We will get there. And your son will catch on once the court cases and inquiries start piling up.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:49

ApocalipstickNow · 02/08/2024 17:33

Yes you have. In the page before you wrote this.

Nope that was a nutter’s post taken down and my comment in reply went with it.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:50

Zita60 · 02/08/2024 17:36

Well, I'm terribly sorry that my desire for women's rights and safety is boring you. You still haven't provided any examples of what JKR has said that I can find.

In several posts you must have ignored and that mantra of your type is what is boring

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 17:52

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 02/08/2024 17:46

They will be completely safe from me wherever they pee as I don't hate transgender people and wouldn't hit them even if I did, but they won't ever find me in the ladies' loos.

I would definitely appreciate it if people stopped twisting words. We all used to know what they meant, but the trans identity movement has tried to unilaterally redefine several, causing confusion and resentment in equal measure, and making it really difficult for people to discuss anything gender related. The worst trick was to redefine the expression of physical reality as hatred.

Hitler didn’t kill any Jews either

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