How far would put your convictions/beliefs first?

[Eart]

Would you stick to your beliefs even if it meant losing family?
Ie, you don't accept pronouns changes but you accept female name and make an effort to buy more female cards/gifts etc, compliment hair/make up etc of child

But you've been told that by not using female pronouns or accepting the person whole as a female you'll be cut out of their lives (and lose all your other neices/nephews)

it's difficult. My immediate reaction would be to use their name as often as needed rather than pronouns. Name? well names don't bother me because i cba with gender stereotypes.

gifts? what's your usual thing. With me and sibling it is either money to get something they choose for themself, that they want, or if they ask for a specific thing and it's in budget, i get that. I would probably hold my nose and buy what they ask for, but if they don't ask they get money and can please themselves.

I wouldn't want to be cut off from my family unless they were really dreadful people.

edited as realised it's a niece/nephew. Same really i guess.

I would put personal relationships first every time. I also think that some flexibility might actually help people see your pov in the longer term- falling out about this sort of thing just entrenches people’s positions.

I wouldn’t start to treat a male as if they were female and vice versa. I wouldn’t go so far as to tell them they are not the ‘gender’ they think they are, but neither would I go along with their delusions. Just like I wouldn't pander to someone with anorexia and encourage them to continue to believe they’re overweight or need to lose more weight. Neither would I tell them they’re too thin!
Honesty is so so important towards people with a mental illness, not collusion.

When do you think you’d need to use pronouns though? Certainly not when you're actually talking to the person.

I've been using new name. I avoided pronouns. I bought more traditionally female cards. Kept my opinions to myself around the child.

But still posted things on FB about sports/prisons etc on my own page that child had no access to.

But because I refuse to use female pronouns or say 'niece' I've been cut off.

No, I wouldn't lose people I love because of pronoun usage.

They would know that I don't share their beliefs because I'm open about my GC views, but just as I have said grace at a Christian friends house, I would suck up their misgendering to be present for the people I love. I'd try and avoid discussing the specific topic of trans as much as possible.

When the doubts creep in and/or it comes crashing down horribly around their ears, they will need somewhere to turn & that's easier if there isn't a big wedge between you.

Sometimes you can do more to limit the damage from the inside.

I would use the female name and buy the 'girly' cards no would get gender neutral gifts (I do this anyway for females). If it's a child no I would not compliment make up. In fact I don't think I would compliment makeup on an adult (I don't wear it I feel it's fine to wear it male or female but I do t feel it's a good thing certainly not a female requirement and absolutely not acceptable in children).

If that's not acceptable then yes I would accept being cut out. I have young children myself and I don't want them being indoctrinated into a cult anyway

I never misgender. I don't use pronouns or I use the child's female name instead of a pronouns to all the family.

This is the position I am in with my brother at the moment. Think I am going to stick to my principles. He has thrown so much shit at the fan without a care for anyone who gets hit by it.

I'd use the names and pronouns that someone wants. That is not worth arguing about.

My position is that trans ideology is a belief system like a religion. And just as I would be polite to people of another religion (not serving bacon to Muslims etc), so I will be polite to trans people.

But I will strongly campaign against any attempt to make a religion or trans ideology into the law of the UK or the rules of a specific organisation (eg sports).

Sorry - meant THEY are misgendering by using made up pronouns.

I wouldn't fall out with family members over what might very well be a phase. I'm not sure how you treat someone as female - plait their hair?

i think using their name is good and just being there for them. Which it sounds like you have been?

Its a hard one because if you don't want to be cut off can you just avoid using pronouns and only use their name? as they seem important to you.

Relationships with my husband and kids first every time. Others, case by case.

It sounds to me as if you have been cut off because even though you've done all they ask, regarding enforced speech etc, you have maintained your belief in reality. While ever you fail to state that white is black and appear to mean it, you are a threat to their ridiculous belief system.

The most frustrating thing is that I try to be accommodating and kind, I understand how difficult it must be and I do try to make allowances.

But my husband doesn't. He absolutely will not use the female name. He "deadnames". He has zero time or sympathy for any trans person and is very vocal about this.
Yet he is currently out with the dad of child and will probably pop in for a cup of tea on way home.

So why is he welcome when his acceptance level is zero and I am banished yet I tried?

"But you've been told that by not using female pronouns or accepting the person whole as a female you'll be cut out of their lives (and lose all your other neices/nephews)"

So it's not just about the pronouns, is it? They insist you must* *"[accept] the person whole as a female". They're not just asking you to behave a certain way (speak as they want you to), they're asking you to think and believe how they want you to. That's just not possible, is it? They are asking the impossible - and they know it. I suspect that even if you said 'she' you'd be accused of not meaning it.

You're on a hiding to nothing here, they already think you're a heretic and they'll always be looking for the slightest reason to excommunicate and shun you.

Women are often judged far more harshly than men.

So why is he welcome when his acceptance level is zero and I am banished yet I tried?
I think we all know the answer to that. It's why JKR gets rape and death threats and Ricky Gervais doesn't.

I mean, that's something i would be bringing up to the parents, because either they're lying about why they are doing this or they aren't in agreement themselves which makes zero sense. Cutting family members out of your child's life should be a two yes/one no situation.

Cross-posted.

Well, how interesting! They accept your husband's total non-acceptance, but take your lukewarm acceptance as a challenge.

Fuck 'em. Take a leaf out of your husband's book and start deadnaming and using 'he'.

It will depend if the relationship here is it is your brother or sister's child or your husbands brother or sister. And it also depends on the relationship that the child's father has with your husband, whether it is both family and friendship or is it just family.

It could be that the sister/brother of a parent of that child are held to higher level of acceptance or conversely that their lack of compliance is ignored because the expectations are so low. Having a close familial bond could also mean that the parent who is the sibling will not allow that bond to be broken because of this, whereas the non-sibling is expected to comply. Or it could be sexism too where any woman is expected to do the social work within the family.

Family dynamics are always very hard to navigate OP. This one sounds very stressful for you. I hope that you get some good support.

Maybe the dad I'd of the same opinion as your DH but can't voice it in front of the family

So are you saying they saw your FB and cut you off because you refused to say the pronouns on there, or that you refused to say them in front of the child? If it's the former, they sound like assholes. I'd tell them I'm unfriending them on FB because they are using my posts there against me, but that I am willing to treat the child as female when I am with them. I would not agree to pretend that I believe in the validity of transgender children in my personal life. That's none of their business. But in front of the child I would, as you say, just avoid pronouns.

B.I.N.G.O.