Elon Musk makes bombshell claim about his transgender child

[fromorbit]

Musk's position which he has held for a while is made made clear in this Jordan Peterson interview:

Elon Musk makes bombshell claim about his transgender son Xavier and how he was 'tricked': 'It's evil'

Elon Musk spoke out about how he believes he was 'tricked' by the woke mind virus into allowing his child to become a transgender woman.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13661573/Elon-Musk-makes-bombshell-claim-transgender-child-Tesla-CEO-tricked-evil.html

I think this is the counterpart to the TRA parents who are locked into supporting gender stuff. The parents who have seen through it and are committed to fighting back. Either you go the gender crit route or you back the right.

Musk is now funding Trump's election campaign to 45 million a month.

Interestingly Musk weirdly told JKR off for being too obsessed with women's rights recently.

The interesting thing will be that even though Musk is clearly against gender stuff he like other men with that position he will not really be targeted to the same extent a woman will be. Hardly any TRA will leave X or refuse to admire Musk's various projects. They won't abandon Marvel which put Musk in a movie Iron Man 2 in the same way they want to cancel Harry Potter. Because men get to do what they want.

This is another reason the gender project is increasingly unravelling. They want to stop women saying things, but at the same time they are not as concerned when powerful male dominated groups like Catholicism, Islam or powerful male individuals like Musk or Eminem say similar things.

“He left his child reading to his incubators”? Women are never “incubators,” no matter what their reproductive history is. Women are human beings.

If your point is that, in your view, Musk treats women like incubators, the child in question is Musk’s child with his ex-wife.

I don’t understand people acting like Elon Musk was so tremendously homophobic in describing his son’s (alleged) childhood behavior and connecting it to homosexuality. Not all gay men care about fashion and theater and “fabulous,” but let’s be honest - this is a common and noticeable type of gay boy or man. Most of the gay guys I did high school theater with were like this, as is my cousin, who’s marrying his boyfriend later this year. (His boyfriend is even a fashion journalist.) Many gay men recognize that this is a type and aren’t offended by people noticing it.

Xavier/Vivian’s whole bit with, “I couldn’t have known that, I was four” doesn’t hold water. In terms of advanced vocabulary, “fabulous” isn’t exactly “dodecahedron,” and plenty of little kids know what musicals are.

I can only speak for myself but I personally don't feel stereotyping is helpful, either for those who turn out to be gay or for those who do not. I used to do ballet and the male dancers hated that they were always assumed to be gay. Some were or course, but the majority were not. Despite male dancers' objections, the myth however still persists and people like Musk still espouse it. This is not only irritating for straight dancers but (more importantly) puts boys off trying dance in the first place.

Aside from my personal experience, I'm not convinced it's particularly helpful in any case to categorise a child so early; a child into musicals and fashion may want to grow into an adult into cars and rugby - but if his parents have already decided he must be homosexual because he danced along to Frozen, he may find that this decision affects how they treat him. It could also make it more confusing for people who don't fit the stereotype - if they don't like musicals or fashion, can they really be gay? My brother was not and is not into musicals or fashion, he grew up liking dinosaurs and Transformers and cars and Xena, Warrior Princess. A couple of male friends of mine are very happily married and there's nothing 'gay' about them whatsoever. Apart from the fact they want to sleep with each other rather than women, of course. They really hate the stereotyping, including Pride etc, as they feel it 'others' them. Of course, not everyone agrees with them - I have another gay friend who absolutely adores Pride and travels to as many parades as he can to post photos of himself in feather boas and rainbow thongs! I don't think Pride is the problem, I think there just needs to be more understanding that not all gay people are the same, and that enjoying certain activities doesn't make someone gay or straight - any more than enjoying certain activities makes someone male or female.

Musk may well have raised an eyebrow if his son was indeed crazy about musicals and calling clothes 'fabulous', but he should have kept it to himself and seen how the child matured as it did not mean the child was thinking about having sexual relations with men. It meant he liked musicals and had presumably seen something where clothes were described as 'fabulous' and it had tickled him. Unless Musk thinks gay people are just born knowing the word fabulous and how to use it to describe a particularly snazzy jacket?!

All he needed to say was "I suspected my child might be gay as early as age 4 and I supported him completely as he matured, even as he decided to adopt more typically 'feminine' qualities. In his teens I could see he was struggling with his identity and I was informed he was even admitting to suicidal thoughts. So, like any parent, I was determined to do everything in my power to help him, including signing off on puberty blockers as I was informed they were harmless and reversible and would buy time to help my son with his mental health difficulties. I was lied to." No stereotyping, no bigotry, just a clear explanation of what happened to him - which is the exact same thing that has happened to too many other parents, rich and poor.

Honestly I've been guilty of that! There are twin boys in DDs class (going into y2). One of them is all about shinies and glitter, and I was thinking "oh yeah prolly gay" but ... yeah he's just a nipper and I realised this was based on kind of ignorant stereotypes that I internalised as I was growing up.

It's funny, we (royal we) tend like to think we're super chill and open minded but we all have blind spots and prejudices.

I don’t think he implied anywhere that all gay boys and men are that particular type. But have you ever met a heterosexual boy or man who was not only into theater, or into dance, but was into musical theater and critiqued people’s fashion choices and said things were fabulous? Maybe - I doubt it, but maybe. If you have, I bet there are twenty gay men like that for every straight one.

Criticizing Elon Musk because “not all gay men are like that” is criticizing him for a claim he never made. And I suspect that if he’d left it at “feminine qualities,” people would have criticized that too. “What feminine qualities? Notice how he doesn’t even have anything specific to list - this is all made up in his head.”

In my personal experience - and yours may vary - gay men are more likely than straight people to be okay with predicting that an effeminate little boy is going to be gay. Straight people are more like, “He’s nine years old, wants to wear a glittery leotard like Taylor Swift, can sing all of ‘Wicked,’ and told his sister that skinny jeans were ‘out’ this season - but that indicates nothing!” Whereas gay men are more like, “Yep, give it ten years and this kid’s gonna be a theater queen.”

He said he knew his son was gay (ie sexually attracted to other males) when he was four because he liked musicals, picked out clothes for him to wear and used the word 'fabulous'. I think it's pushing it a bit to state that this four year old was 'into fashion', but in answer to your question there are many public figures who are involved in dance and into fashion. To name a very few, Reece Clarke, Matthew Ball, Marco Masciari, Cesar Corrales... All professional ballet dancers, all post on SM about fashion, all very much straight. I confess I do not know whether they use the word fabulous... maybe that's the key? An easy-peasy way of knowing if your four year old is going to grow into a gay man! Even if there is a 95% chance of a child who behaves like this growing into a gay man, as you 'bet me', that's still 5% who probably won't appreciate being pigeonholed for life by their behaviour as a four year old.

I did not criticize Elon Musk for claiming all gay men were 'that particular type' (?!), I'm not at all sure how on earth you reached that interpretation from my post? Elon Musk claimed no such thing, Elon Musk claimed he knew his four year child was gay because of this behaviour and my objection is that he should not have used it as definitive proof that his child was going to grow up to want sex with men, and that though he may have a suspicion, it would've been better to keep quiet wait and to see how he matured. My further point was that trying to link certain behaviours with sexual orientation is very unhelpful for both those people who fit the stereotype and those who do not.

I also didn't say "feminine qualities", I said "'feminine' qualities. Big difference. And I'm not sure that claiming gay men would immediately declare that a four year old was definitely homosexual whereas straight people would prefer to wait and see how they develop is quite the win you seem to think it is...

I don’t think anything’s a “win” - this is a conversation, not a competition.

Nobody’s “pigeonholed for life” because their parents (or other people) think they might be gay. People wonder all kinds of things about their children’s futures. Some of the things they predict happen, some don’t, and hopefully the parents take it in stride.

I feel like you’re just flat-out denying that there’s a certain type of little boy who generally grows up to be gay. There is. That’s why a lot of gay men have childhood anecdotes about being bullied for their “sissy” interests, or older male relatives who told them to stop “acting like a girl,” or idolizing diva-type actresses and singers.

And it’s okay to acknowledge that. It’s okay to listen to gay men talk about their lives and notice similarities among many of them that straight men are much less likely to have. It doesn’t mean these things happen to all gay men or never happen to straight men. But there’s nothing wrong with recognizing patterns, and recognizing patterns is often a quality of autistic people, like Elon Musk.

But I am not "flat-out denying that there’s a certain type of little boy who generally grows up to be gay." I don't appreciate you inventing opinions for me that I haven't offered. I am quite capable of forming my own arguments, and if you don't understand my meaning then please ask for clarification rather than make stuff up.

I stated that "Even if there is a 95% chance of a child who behaves like this growing into a gay man, as you 'bet me', that's still 5% who probably won't appreciate being pigeonholed for life by their behaviour as a four year old." That means I have not challenged your estimate of how often this "certain type of little boy ... generally grows up to be gay". I would actually not be at all surprised if the number was higher. Of course, even knowing the exact figure one would have to investigate cause and effect - if parents are seeing their children behave in a certain way and make assumptions it will very likely influence how they treat them and thus how the child turns out.

As you say: "Some of the things they predict happen, some don’t, and hopefully the parents take it in stride." There's nothing wrong at all in raising an eyebrow if your little boy is mad about musicals and shouting 'fabulous' at clothing choices; there is (in my personal opinion - which is what you asked for, and what I offered) something wrong with announcing that you "know" said child is definitely gay, and treating him as such. I believe all children - and adults, actually - should be treated as individuals and their behaviour should be appreciated as a special part of the human they are rather than indicative of anything deeper.

It's one of those things were as a parent, you could observe this and it would probably mean that if/when your son announced he was gay, you'd be unsurprised. But it still isn't yours to assume for him, or to say to him or others. A wise parent would say "maybe, but let's wait and see and let him grow up without the burden of any expectations about it".

I think this whole area has become very clouded recently, especially with "trans kids" being labelled at very young ages and celebrated, in such a way that it becomes hard for them to back out. I think that's wrong and the same goes for being gay, which people also often change their minds about or aren't sure about until they're older. But it's becoming saturated into society (at least among the left, arty and slebs) to see it as OK for young children to be considered part of this stuff or that it\s appropriate to label them and inform them about all the details including some very adult stuff.

Musk considers himself opposed to transing kids, understandably but he's absorbed the idea that you can decide your small child is gay probably without even realising he's come under that same influence.

Exactly this, explained far more eloquently than I managed! I think it also applies to male/female gender norms - I was supposed to be the arty one and my brother the science one, so I got arty presents, theatre trips etc while my brother got chemistry sets and trips to the science museum. I'm now retraining in tech and wondering where I'd be if I'd hadn't been expected to be the girly/arty one who liked ballet and English. I liked robots and building stuff too but that was never indulged. (My brother however is a scientist, though not chemistry!) I think stereotyping or categorising children (or people) is all too often problematic.

Being into fashion, musical theatre and using the term fabulous as a young child just reflects what they have been exposed to. I've got girls admittedly but they could sing along to many of the big musical numbers at 5 because I like them, played them in the car etc. mine also were exposed to going to opera, they didn't realise this was unusual until they were at junior school and others laughed. Honestly kids can be into anything

“Decades of experience” but worthless - no actual evidence, as nobody thought to collect the data.

Just to correct this, they deliberately put an age limit on collecting the data.

It wasn't an oversight.