Are young women insane?

[irishmurdoch]

Just been on a Reddit travel forum where young people planning their "year out" are discussing the merits of mixed gender hostel rooms. Lots of women talking about men snoring but absolutely none of them seem to be aware of the safeguarding risks. My mind is boggling. AIBU??

Better then spending your life paranoid that a man is going to jump out of under a bed and attack you, they would be of more harm with their partners if they make bad choices

I don't think it's anything new. Many people I know, male and female, took huge risks when travelling that, with hindsight, were insane. I think it's something about the holiday mentality. I wouldn't hitchhike in the UK, but I did on holiday for example.

Loads of hostel rooms I stayed in were mixed sex. My main concern was theft, I don't think I ever imagined anything sexual happening because it was so rare that there weren't multiple people in the room. I once stayed in a room with 11 men and no women - I thought I'd walked in to the wrong dorm! Luckily the guys were all really nice to me.

I suppose the significant question is 'are men more dangerous now?' I suppose one has to take account of social media effects.

In my youth we hitch-hiked and hostelled and never felt in danger, we were never alone.

I don't think young women know what they are anymore. Many of them think men can be women TWAW and all that.

Then I'm the survery most of them said they would rather be in the woods with a bear than a man.

I don't get it.

I would like to add a point for consideration here.

I have used both mixed and female only. Sometimes the female only are empty except for you - which made me feel very vulnerable as I was totally alone.

Multiple people generally makes me feel safer.

The larger hostel dorms are usually very busy so you aren’t on your own.

But you cannot guarantee you'll just be with your friends in such a situation.
'Choice' means having choices; not being forced by circumstance.

I do get the feeling that for many...when there is talk of mixed sex facilities, some will just think about their lovely friends, the lovely men or trans identified men, they know. They don't extrapolate to the various different scenarios that can occur.

I used to hitch hike - alone - in my late teens - in both Britain, and through France ( once). It was always men who picked me up. Many were 'lovely' and protective, buying me meals and then handing me a tenner for the rest of my journey...Some just wanted to show off their driving skills and display their imagined machismo....and some ( in France) were predators. I had to jump out of car/lorry doors; was driven off road into a deserted area; was chased through woods..........

I finally took a coach home to Britain - after having to fend of the attentions of a married man in a boat yard I was working in. I'd never, now, recommend a woman hitch hikes through France. I was young, naive, liked men in general, had never in my life been sexually assaulted ( I wasn't assaulted during the above btw...but came close).

I stayed in mixed dorms as a 35 year old travelling alone - felt like everyone's mother! Never saw any bad behaviour, but had to resist the urge to leave notes reminding the lads not to leave their valuables lying around in the open.

I would recommend young women to only stay in mixed dorms if they're not travelling alone as a precaution, but having experienced it myself it's not something I'd be overly concerned about.

I'd have much greater concerns about them going out drinking in this country and getting spiked than I would about them sleeping in mixed hostels in Thailand or wherever to be honest.

Have you asked your male partner, father, colleague, uncles, nephews? etc.

Interestingly, when I did go backpacking round Europe my male father was the one most insistent that I was careful about stuff like that. Was this internalised missandy? How terrible

I probably would have been really in favour of this as a teen, twenty year old. In my case I believed men and women were basically the same and really hadn’t felt my experience of the world was distinctly female bodied. Stalking, low level sexual assaults and every day misogyny plus the experience of pregnancy and birth (most significantly for me) made me see my experience totally differently and fudementally distinct due to being female.

Hitch hiking alone is completely different though, you're alone with one other person and they have the control to drive you wherever they like. I wouldn't advise any lone female to ever hitch hike although I hitch hiked with no issues through France with my boyfriend back in the day and have often travelled for weeks or months alone. I've also been offered and taken lifts from people - but only couples.

On one European trip where I travelled alone I was followed by a middle aged man in a car and asked if i would give him a BJ in France. I had an old man on a train in Spain put his arm around me and I had a bloke take a shower with the door open while I cleaned my teeth at a campsite.

The vibe in mixed dorms IME is very different though, the lads are young not old predatory men, are all about going out and having fun. There are always lots of people around in dorm hostels as they offer the cheapest accommodation and I've never felt unsafe. That's not to say things can't go wrong especially if drink or drugs are involved but you could have issues walking down a quiet street, walking home at night, at a bar or club, or pretty much anywhere where there are men. Be sensible but you can't shut your life down because there are arsehole men out there.

@Beth216 But sometimes you ARE on your own with a man in a mixed dorm. You don't know until you get there and there may be no other accommodation for miles. (I've found this when hiking).

This was common in remote youth hostel rooms when I was traveling 30 years ago. Hostel rooms in the Canadian Rockies were mixed sex ( also no running water and out door compost toilets).

I didn’t much like it tbh, mainly due to the difficultly of getting changed for bed discreetly, but you were always surrounded by lots of men and women, so not particularly unsafe in terms of assault.

I genuinely was more scared of the bears! : )

I don’t know what hostel policy is now but I would not support these being the norm. Hostels I stayed in cities were single sex accommodation.

Jesus! That puts a different light on it.

I did always make sure I was tightly in my sleeping bag at night to put off any wannabe opportunistic attackers. But you can’t do much about a man who’s as blatant as that.

Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were a couple.......🤔

Young men can be predatory too.......although when you are younger you can sometimes interpret this as flattering or flirtatious behaviour....... until it becomes forceful or aggressive.

We have single sex facilities precisely so that women and girls do not have to "shut down" their lives or be continually aware of who is in their vicinity when in a vulnerable/undressed position. This is what safeguarding is about.

The experience of mixed sex on here is different from mine. At the remote hostels I was at, provision was basic ( to preserve the wilderness) so there was one room everyone ate in, and one everyone slept in, and that was that.

I would not at all like to be in a small room with a few people that was mixed sex.

I think it takes young women a long time to process that men are, as a sex, bigger, stronger and faster than they are and that, while most men are good, decent people, if you come across one who isn't good and if he decides he wants to hurt you, there might not be much you can do about it.

I was probably 40 before I wised up.

I stayed in a mixed hostel dorm in London last week.
I hadn't stayed in a hostel for 25 years, but it was the only way I could afford to go so I went for it.
I honestly didn't feel unsafe at all, it was a 30 bed dorm so always someone around, there were other women there and if I'd felt unsafe or even weirded out at any time I'd have spoken uo.
I'm all set to book again for my next trip.

I did this. But usually with friends and bigger dorms. I wouldn’t do a 6 person dorm. And I once left a dorm in Central America as when they showed me to my room there was only one other person stuff there (male). It’s different if it’s a 16 bedded dorm and there’s always someone there. Alone with a man in a smaller dorm I’d be wary.

Mixed hostel rooms aren't anything new though, they were a thing 20 years ago when I was travelling, more than half of the hostels I stayed in in Australia were mixed.

No, they are not insane. They just don’t share your opinion.

Yes, I agree. I actually think I wouldn't do it now at all. But then I've no desire to stay in hostels now either, my hostel days are over!

All these words used on this thread to describe women who may or may not be concerned about sharing mixed-sex sleeping accommodation:

insane / lunacy / paranoid.

Make of this what you will.

The reason women are more at risk from partners / known men is because those men have more opportunity.

Sharing a mixed dorm = giving some men more opportunity.

"Making bad choices" in partners sounds a bit like victim blaming to me. Men are violent to women because they can, they want to, and because society enables it and barely condemns it

Many of us wouldn't call it "spending your life paranoid" about male violence. It is more like spending your life dealing with the PTSD caused by the male violence you've already experienced.

NAMALT NAMALT NAMALT of course! But fuck knows the ones who are like that cause more than enough suffering.

That said I did this very thing as a teenager. Mixed dorm in Amsterdam.

Why? Because my brain wasn't fully mature. Because although I'd already experienced 2 instances of sexual violence (1 stranger, one adult in position of trust/power) there was nothing out there helping me to join the dots about male violence against women and girls. I internalised the blame for both instances.

And luckily those Amsterdam guys were zonked out on drugs - and they might have just been decent guys - so nothing happened.