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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FFS disability is now on the pride flag

517 replies

sashh · 16/07/2024 08:58

I'm livid. I'm disabled and I do not want to be represented on the LGBTQ+ flag.

Also this quote: Dayna Halliwell (she/her), Content and Engagement Manager at Evenbreak, led the collaboration and organised the Pride visit. She said: “It was very moving and amazing to see the reaction of disabled people in the audience. You could see the joy on their faces of being represented in the parade.”

https://blog.evenbreak.co.uk/2024/07/02/new-disability-inclusive-pride-flag-unveiled-at-london-pride/

New Disability-Inclusive Pride Flag unveiled at London Pride

Image description: Evenbreak team members in pink t-shirts carry the new Disability-Inclusive Pride Flag in the London Pride Parade alongside Valentino Vechietti, dressed in white. Photo credit: Ma…

https://blog.evenbreak.co.uk/2024/07/02/new-disability-inclusive-pride-flag-unveiled-at-london-pride

OP posts:
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13
BeachParty · 17/07/2024 01:33

Catsmere · 17/07/2024 01:26

Ever since they put that Dad's Army arrow on the flag, it's read to me as saying everyone should be sexually available for TW.

Bit of expansion would be nice, I'm genuinely interested as to how you get to there

Catsmere · 17/07/2024 01:53

The way the arrow drives into all the other colours, plus having read so much of what too many of these men say in places like Reddit. ETA plus things like lesbian groups being banned from meeting without allowing men in, or women thrown off dating apps for not allowing men in their dating pool.

quixote9 · 17/07/2024 02:08

JohnnyAndTheDead · 16/07/2024 09:03

Why not?

Because disability is not a sexuality. (Neither is intersex, for that matter, but that's another post.) The point of Pride is pride in one's sexuality -- at least that's what I always understood.

SammyScrounge · 17/07/2024 02:19

WaitingForMojo · 16/07/2024 09:05

It’s a celebration of diversity, is it not?

Unless you’re incredibly homophobic and don’t want to be associated, I don’t see why you’d have a problem with it.

Why is the poster incredibly.homophobic if she doesn't want to be on the Pride flag? That word homophobic is so overused, tired, and meaningless. I wouldn't like to be on the Pride flag either. Why should I or anybody else have to take part in celebrating Pride in your sexuality?
Some of the groups aligned with Pride nowadays are repellent - they are the reason the couple of gays I know no longer go to Pride.

Devonbabs · 17/07/2024 03:14

SammyScrounge · 17/07/2024 02:19

Why is the poster incredibly.homophobic if she doesn't want to be on the Pride flag? That word homophobic is so overused, tired, and meaningless. I wouldn't like to be on the Pride flag either. Why should I or anybody else have to take part in celebrating Pride in your sexuality?
Some of the groups aligned with Pride nowadays are repellent - they are the reason the couple of gays I know no longer go to Pride.

Don’t you know, there’s a certain cult that’s appropriated the suffix”phobic” and treats it as a magic word to vaporise all actual argument. Unfortunately for them it only works with other cult members. Unfortunately the very people the suffix was originally designed to protect no longer are protected by the word because of its misuse. Classic case of the boy who cried wolf.

MaidOfAle · 17/07/2024 04:48

PlanetJanette · 16/07/2024 16:13

To all the straight disabled people saying they don't want to be included in a flag - newsflash - you're not. This is about recognising the intersection of disability and the LGBT+ community. If you're gay and able-bodied, or straight and disabled, you're not at that intersection and this development really doesn't concern you.

I'm bisexual and disabled and the two have nothing to do with each other. I don't want my disability represented on the flag that's meant to represent the struggle for my right to marry a woman.

MaidOfAle · 17/07/2024 04:50

BeachParty · 17/07/2024 01:33

Bit of expansion would be nice, I'm genuinely interested as to how you get to there

The arrow is pointy and penetrating, rather like a male genital organ that a lesbian wouldn't want.

MaidOfAle · 17/07/2024 05:08

GrimDamnFanjo · 16/07/2024 09:12

Is everything a sexuality now?

There are men who fetishise disabled women. There is porn in which women have their limbs bound up to resemble quadruple amputees.

This new flag is a smokescreen for these straight men's fetishes.

IdealHomeExhibition · 17/07/2024 07:14

Longdueachange · 16/07/2024 09:51

I'm uncomfortable about it as it almost looks like they are creating a sub category for disabled attracted. It looks to me as though it's fetising disabilities. Frankly the flag has so many different colours and agendas, that no one really knows what they all mean.

This. With bells on.

RedToothBrush · 17/07/2024 08:05

TempestTost · 16/07/2024 17:51

Yes.

I'd point out however this has always also been true of gay and lesbian people.

The flag is now hated by many, but even before all of this, there were plenty of gay and lesbian people who thought it was kind of dumb, or even counterproductive.

There really is no such thing as a unified gay political movement. The closest you;ll get is the desire for removal of laws that resytcit homosexualisty and the ability to share things like pensions, be next of kin.

Even same sex marriage has never had real unanimity in the gay community.

Identity politics is just very limited.

Edited

Rose of Dawn who identifies as trans but doesn't agree with much of the TRA stuff did a video some time ago, talking about how the movement was so limited in its political representation and agenda. They pointed out that others voices and views were actively suppressed and drowned out and this upset them greatly and they wanted to make that point. It was one of those light bulb moments for me.

The flag represents a very narrow political agenda. It's supposed to be about inclusion and diversity, but it's exactly the opposite in a huge number of ways. It's a symbol of suppression within the communities that it is supposed to include as a result of its narrative and narrow mindedness. There are literally books written on the politics of flags so I won't go into it too much here.

The point is it is effectively a call to arms - it's not nationalist because of what it represents - but if you think about it in those terms it makes sense. It is militant and it's intention is to force team, silence and intimidate.

I think the thing here is to listen to people who belong to groups it's supposed to represent. There's a fair number of this thread expressing a view that they don't like it and it doesn't represent them. Then look at the content of the scolders who ignore this but instead attack by trying to other and yes are force teaming.

It's a political flag, which is undermining the original pride flag and exposes gay rights to a political backlash. It has taken years for gay rights to get to where they are through moderate measured political pressure. This flags militancy seeks to aggressively attack and represents authoritarianism.

That leaves a lot of gay and disabled people alienated and exposed and there are others who recognise it is a threat to them because of its militancy. It is fair for all to be critical - and yes it does affect all those groups who have a right to say it is not a neutral flag. The scolders are keen to suggest it represents a peaceful, neutral group who mean no harm. The reality is different and we can see it.

It is a flag which seeks to dominate and suppress. It does not seek to represent. It seeks to exclude and to hijack other causes for its own benefit, often with a disregard for many of the unique issues these other groups have.

I honestly would be surprised if there was any discussion whatsoever relating to the sexuality and issues that disabled lesbians face - unless they are actually male or the target of sexual desire from a male perspective and not representative of the actual issues. And therein lies the entire problem. Default flag wavers ignore the minorities because they can but then claim legitimacy through the numbers their umbrella supposedly includes. It's a form of false inflation to legitimise.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 17/07/2024 08:23

@IdealHomeExhibition ‘this. with bells on!’ - please god don’t give them ideas!

RainWithSunnySpells · 17/07/2024 08:34

IMO the progress pride flag represents a group of people who want the ban on puberty blockers lifted in the UK because they fully support the 'Dutch Protocol' of puberty blockers>cross sex hormones>surgery pipeline for gender non-conforming children and really, really want other people to believe that 'gender identity' should over-ride biological sex.

If you do not support this, then that flag does not represent you, even if it technically should becuse you are same-sex attracted etc.

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 17/07/2024 08:41

GrimDamnFanjo · 16/07/2024 09:12

Is everything a sexuality now?

Seems like it. We're all on the flag now otherwise how can they keep Pride going?

Shall we have a bet on what gets added next? It's oppression Top Trumps after all.

Wheat intolerance?
Veganism?
Having red hair?
Being Welsh?
Polyamory?
Disliking Tunnocks?
Being a socialist?
Being overweight?
Furries?

The disability I live with is not a source of pride but a hard reality and a profound loss which I have learned to live with. I find the commandeering of others lived experience (to throw their own language back at them) frankly hypocritical in the extreme.

Joleyne · 17/07/2024 08:53

The original Rainbow is shrinking with each new addition. Soon they'll have erased it completely.

CocoapuffPuff · 17/07/2024 08:55

Spot on, Red. I don't think the rainbow can be rescued.

TWETMIRF · 17/07/2024 09:03

MaidOfAle · 17/07/2024 04:50

The arrow is pointy and penetrating, rather like a male genital organ that a lesbian wouldn't want.

It also reminds me of the vile cotton ceiling talk.

DysonSphere · 17/07/2024 09:03

MaidOfAle · 17/07/2024 05:08

There are men who fetishise disabled women. There is porn in which women have their limbs bound up to resemble quadruple amputees.

This new flag is a smokescreen for these straight men's fetishes.

👁️....

Ok I've officially heard it all. Surely that's Peak Whatever.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 17/07/2024 09:09

That’s the point.

gummigwer · 17/07/2024 09:16

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DSDaisy · 17/07/2024 09:34

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Withdrawn at poster's request

SeeSeeRider · 17/07/2024 09:56

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For God' sake! Are you channelling Prince Philip?

SidewaysOtter · 17/07/2024 10:14

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I’m glad to see Smurfs are included. Perhaps the flag should be made hairy to represent The Flumps?

SidewaysOtter · 17/07/2024 10:15

Joleyne · 17/07/2024 08:53

The original Rainbow is shrinking with each new addition. Soon they'll have erased it completely.

It’ll be what’s best for us, I’m sure. In the name of equality, progression and diversity, for ever and ever, amen.

Sloejelly · 17/07/2024 10:16

many queer theorists are so close to eating themselves

There will be a flag for that

PlanetJanette · 17/07/2024 10:20

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

This is nonsense.

The evolutions of the progress flag have been about inclusion of parts of the LGBT+ community that have tended to be more marginalised within the community.

That is why the black and brown stripes were added: not because anyone things being a person of colour makes someone queer, but because LGBT+ people of colour have experienced marginalisation within the LGBT+ community. The same of trans people. The same of LGBT+ disabled people.

I have not seen any, even highly academic, attempt to conflate being disabled (in general, irrespective of sexual or gender identity) and being queer.

The only actual academic discussion I have seen on this is the overlap between disability theory and queer theory, and some of the common experiences of disabled people and queer people (e.g. higher rates of violence, discrimination, homelessness etc). But saying that 'Group X has some experiences in common with Group Y' is not the same as saying 'Group X is therefore part of Group Y'.

So back to the original point - this flag is nothing to do with straight disabled people.

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