Less Heat

[Brainworm]

The media coverage of the attempted assassination of Trump prompted me to recall a time when a friend of mine worked in the House of Commons in the mid 1990s. Whilst political differences were as significant then as now, MPs from opposite sides of the house were best men at each other's weddings (yes, it was mostly men who were MPs), god parents to each others children etc.

Whilst the 'gender debate' is often described as 'toxic', this is within a climate of it being common place for political views / positioning to being considered something other than 'different conclusions/positions'. Views and opinions are often dismissed or condemned as 'hateful' or 'ignorant', when they simply involve people giving more weight to certain points than others and drawing different conclusions.

I can be, and am, friends with people who claim TWAW. I can be friends with someone who believes there should be single sex spaces yet males with certain thoughts about them should be admitted. The thing that would get in the way of our friendship would be refusal to have reasoned discussions and incorrect accusations of hatred. If I felt that their opinions were based on false premises, I could just say that and still maintain my friendship. I could only maintain a meaningful friendship if they also 'agreed to disagree'.

I have friends who follow all sorts of fad diets and buy 'miracle creams' for cellulite. I have friends who play the national lottery - experiencing a frisson of excitement that this week they really feel it's their lucky week. I am the 'sciencey' friend who 'pisses on their chips'.

I have some friends who are incredibly angry and anxious about climate change. They are also 'TWAW' and want TW to be included in female spaces. I have explained to them that the 'real and present' threat they feel around global warming despite there being little impact of people's current daily life, is similar to the threat some people feel in relation to single sex provision. Since this discussion, they have been far more open to my position and views and we can and do discuss them at times. We also connect and have fun together in lots of other ways and they are lovely, caring people who enrich my life.

I think social media, and what is reported, gives rise to the idea that people with different views are so polarised that they can't have civil discussions, let alone be friends. I'm interested in hearing from FWR posters as to whether this is the case for them?

I get on fine with TG and non-binary folk. I don't get along with people who have extreme right wing views. It reflects their character. I've never encountered one who wasn't a huge asshole.
There are lots of lovely TG people. Yeah, maybe they are deluding themselves. That doesn't make them bad people. It's a highly vocal fringe element who are viciously misogynistic, entitled and demanding. I would give somebody who insists that women owe it to them to give up our spaces a wide berth.
Like the far-right types, they are so disordered that they cannot be reasoned with.

I think more thinking for ourselves and less relying on what others think, wether that be online or off, is the most pressing issue in all this.

I'm accusing you of nothing. I don't think you're a TRA based on the post I quoted.

But I am challenging your claim that you can both state transwomen are women but then go on to say there should be caveats around that (prisons, sport etc).

Either they are women like you & I and we should all be treated the same, or TW are not women, and there needs to be exemptions and exclusions that we wouldn't apply to women.

Your response - if I have interpreted the tangent into my use pronouns correctly - appears to be 'i say TWAW to be kind', not because that is your genuinely held belief.

This is getting ridiculous.

If they're entering a building as I leave, I'll keep the door open for them. If they speak to me politely I'll lend them my ear. If there's time left on my ticket for a parking lot I'll happily give it to them. What more are you after?

Haven't RTFT, but it seems that many of us are using "GC" when what we mean is Sex Realist. Just about everyone is a sex realist, though some people pretend not to be (and a tiny minority have lost their minds). What GC people have in common with right wingers, left wingers, Christians, Muslims, atheists, vegans, Scorpios, Swifties etc etc (you get the picture) is sex realism. Which is not really a political position, it's just reality. Genderists and their allies have gender worship in common with right wingers. Trump is a sex realist like almost everyone else on the planet but he is not GC. Being GC is a political position opposed to gender stereotypes and gender essentialism. These beliefs are the cornerstone of gender ideology and are very popular with right wingers, though not fundamental to right wing politics.

Edited for typo.