GC views not valid because the majority are "bad actors"

[BigTubOfLard]

First time posting on this board.
Male friend and me were chatting last night and when he asked who I voted for in the UK elections I said I couldn't vote green because they don't know what a woman is. He said, "Oh you are one of those".

This lead to a loooong discussion of why I held my GC views. We had to agree to disagree, but his main argument for why I was wrong was that "the vast majority" of people who hold my view believe that trans people should not even exist. I could not sway him on this point - didn't matter that I argued that no, the vast majority of GC people are probably women, we don't believe that trans people should not exist, but we have very valid reasons for opposing transwomen in our exclusive space.

So basically my view is wrong because "bad actors" believe trans people should not exist. Any idea how to counter this? I did think of pointing him directly at this forum, but doubt he'll take time to look.

Whether or not anyone thinks they "should exist" or "shouldn't exist", the man who has turned into a woman doesn't exist. I think Father Christmas should exist and Satan shouldn't. That doesn't change the fact that neither one does.

Yes, I believe trans is a delusion or a lie. What do you think it is?

I have a feeling (unfortunately like everyone else I just have feelings and not stats) that in the USA there is much more of a strand of conservative, transphobic opposition to transactivism which explicitly does think that everyone should conform in all ways to the gender roles associated with their sex. So in the USA if you think women's single sex spaces should exist, you are more likely to also think that gender non conforming people should not exist, gay people are sinful if they are in same sex relationships and everyone should just go to church and shut up and obey the patriarchs.

I don’t think that’s a reasonable interpretation of what was posted. Clearly nobody can change sex, but also some people want to change their presentation and be ‘treated as if they are the opposite sex’

It’s perfectly possible to believe people can’t change sex And still believe that trans people shouldn’t be discriminated against

On the other hand, I have heard TRA’s declare that people can change sex - which obviously demands a revision of the definition of ‘sex’ Here we go again!

So, to answer the OP, I’m a GC person who doesn’t think that trans people shouldn’t exist

Rather, I object to a position in which a man asks to be treated ‘like a woman’ because I believe that people should be treated equally regardless of sex, and currently, I don’t think society does that

If you believe people have changed sex, it is a delusion or a lie.
If you believe that people have a special gender identity that is more relevant to laws and policies than their sex, you just have crappy opinions.

Neither of those means I think trans people don't or shouldn't exist- just that (as stonewall will tell us) being trans isn't a single attribute or experience, it is a term applied to a collection of different groups with quite different experiences.

So what is a trans person?

I don’t try and p convince anyone of anything tbh.

It takes a certain kind of person to believe men should have access to women’s showers, rape centres ect.. so there is zero point because they are fundamentally fucked in the head.

‘Bad actors’ is just an excuse to dig in with out explanation

I think its gender dysphoria.
We had to agree to disagree, but his main argument for why I was wrong was that "the vast majority" of people who hold my view believe that trans people should not even exist. I could not sway him on this point - didn't matter that I argued that no, the vast majority of GC people are probably women, we don't believe that trans people should not exist, but we have very valid reasons for opposing transwomen in our exclusive space.

So basically my view is wrong because "bad actors" believe trans people should not exist. Any idea how to counter this? I did think of pointing him directly at this forum, but doubt he'll take time to look.

I was responding to this. If you believe GC people are "bad actors who believe trans people sound not exist", then posts saying trans is a delusion or a lie and people shouldn't be forced to comply with it will uphold that belief.

Saying trans people shouldn't exist is fundamentally different from saying that people who say they are the opposite sex are deluded or lying.

People can't change sex. Fact. It follows that anyone who says they think they've changed sex is deluded or lying.

People can identify how they want as long as they don't force others to participate in their belief.

As mentioned, it can be a number of things.
It can include someone who suffers from gender dysphoria, someone drawn to the identity or community who likes trying on "labels", or someone who cross dresses for sexual reasons.

Excellent post.

As pp said I don't think people should be sacked unfairly in any circumstances, for me "trans" comes under religion/belief or disability if they are diagnosed as genuinely psychologically dysphoric, and can be protected as such.

How would you define a trans person in a way that complies with what you have said above?

The shouldn't exist/wish we were dead point is one made repeatedly by TRAs. I've never heard it, or anything that could be remotely construed as it from the GC side. I assume it's a continuation of the argument that 'if you don't believe I am the sex I say I am you want to kill me' argument. Yes, I think this is nonsense too. It also isn't helpful. Most of the children who say they are trans have mental health difficulties. This feeds in to the narrative that the world is against them.

It's a thought terminating cliche.

This feeds in to the narrative that the world is against them.
Exactly, so its bizarre that this line is pushed by people who consider themselves trans "allies".

Exactly, so it's bizarre that this line is pushed by people who consider themselves trans "allies".

It's being pushed by people who are highly manipulative, by them and their flying monkeys, both gullible naive people who want to be "inclusive" and people who know what they are doing.

www.narcissisticabuserehab.com/types-of-flying-monkeys/

I'm GC

I don't think anyone says the wish trans people are dead.

I think the logical conclusion of saying trans is a delusion/lie, humans can't change sex and people shouldn't be forced to go along with the lie, is that there is no such thing as trans.

If there is no such thing as trans, how can trans people exist? They are just people.

It's semantics but when GC people say "noone thinks trans people should not exist" at the same time as outlining reasons why trans isn't real they are in fact sounding like they think trans doesn't exist

If there is no such thing as trans, how can trans people exist? They are just people.

Yes, you got there in the end. Well done!

It's not about me eresh. Its about people like the man in the OP and trying to show why they would say "GC people say trans people shouldn't exist".

So maybe you got there in the end?

I don't believe in god. I understand that others do, and to the extent that it doesn't affect me, I respect that belief. We can agree to differ. But I don't believe what they do, and if asked directly I will tell them that. If their belief in god is used to oppress me I will argue why that is wrong because god doesn't exist in any objective sense.

It doesn't mean that I think people who believe in god don't exist, or that they shouldn't exist.

I don't really care what the man in the OP thinks. You can't argue with stupid, Cassie.

It doesn't mean that I think people who believe in god don't exist, or that they shouldn't exist.

I may believe "people who are going to heaven" don't exist. That doesn't mean I don't think Christians exist.