GC views not valid because the majority are "bad actors"

[BigTubOfLard]

First time posting on this board.
Male friend and me were chatting last night and when he asked who I voted for in the UK elections I said I couldn't vote green because they don't know what a woman is. He said, "Oh you are one of those".

This lead to a loooong discussion of why I held my GC views. We had to agree to disagree, but his main argument for why I was wrong was that "the vast majority" of people who hold my view believe that trans people should not even exist. I could not sway him on this point - didn't matter that I argued that no, the vast majority of GC people are probably women, we don't believe that trans people should not exist, but we have very valid reasons for opposing transwomen in our exclusive space.

So basically my view is wrong because "bad actors" believe trans people should not exist. Any idea how to counter this? I did think of pointing him directly at this forum, but doubt he'll take time to look.

This isn't a gotcha, religion is indeed a fantasy. Beliefs under the EA are always balanced against other rights, and it doesn't force a belief onto everyone else like the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (note no "trans people") does. It's totally different.

I disagree. The PC of gender reassignment isn't forcing a belief onto anyone else. It's just saying that people who believe they have "reassigned their gender" can't be discriminated against. on those grounds. We don;t have to beleive they have actually changed sex.

That seems to me to be exactly the same as the PC of religion.

Then you really don't understand the issue at all. That, combined with your weak reference to "brains not matching sex" earlier in the thread, which is nonsense by the way, means you've got plenty of catching up to do.

It's as obvious as gravity that people are being forced to pretend that people have changed sex, and you're not speaking in good faith to deny it.

If we got rid of all protected categories and dealt with employment cases simply as unfair dismissal

It was actually you who brought up the "dealing with it as unfair dismissal" thing. I responded to ask why "gender reassignment" couldn't be dealt with like that. I'm not convinced by anything here that a specific category needs to exist for it.

I didn't say that anything about brains not matching sex. I'm aware that research that claims this has been debunked.

What I referred to was research that found differences in some trans peoples' brains in an area relating to self-perception. In other words, that would mean the person was perceiving themselves (their body) incorrectly.

The Equality Act says the following about discrimination:

Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics')

It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:
age
gender reassignment
being married or in a civil partnership
being pregnant or on maternity leave
disability
race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation

These are called ‘protected characteristics’.

You’re protected from discrimination:
at work
in education
as a consumer
when using public services
when buying or renting property
as a member or guest of a private club or association

You’re legally protected from discrimination by the Equality Act 2010.

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

There is nothing there about you having to believe that a person's gender reassignment is actually a valid belief - it simply says that you must not discriminate against them for that reason.

He thinks that people that accept humans cant change sex shouldnt exist?
Does he think the same of those that think that Earth is a globe that orbits round the sun?
What strikes me about this is it is you that are seeking reassurance for your sanity and grasp of reality.
This is both a central issue of this idealogy and most tellingly, how women 2nd guess themselves in the face of male manipulation.
In fact if this imbalanced dynamic didnt exist where women routinely give away their power without mindfullness [ I include myself ] then perhaps this ideology would never have existed.
I apreciate all the reasons both historical and current as to why that is, but at some point we need to grab the reigns.
In a nutshell, perhaps you could tell him that he is a se xist fo ol and just f off, afterall he is clearly not a real friend or he would never advocate such an obviously misogynistic movement that tries to strip you of your rights dignity and safety.
You absolutely can do better.

@Zita60 now I know you're not discussing this in good faith, in the real world people absolutley are being forced to play along with this fantasy. You're being wilfully blind if you don't see it, or you're just lying.

Do catch up.

I do get (and respect) what you are saying, but as an old bloke you did make me laugh! I've been discovering how my views aren't worth anything any more, because I'm not in the generation which is right about everything any more. Especially my views about trans issues! I have an inkling of what it must be like to disappear from view as an old woman ...

Going back to the OP’s question about whether / how to change this man’s mind….

You’re wasting your time with this man.

He told you everything you needed to know about his character when he accused you of lying when you talked about your experiences of sexual harassment.

This same male friend denied that harassment of females was a common as I made out.

When he did this, he was accusing you of lying.

What he also did in that conversation was show you clearly that, in a discussion about male sexual violence against women, his sympathy and concern was for the males not for the women.

He’s a man who believes that men shouldn’t have to face any negative consequences for their sexual violence against women, that other men should protect men who are perpetrators of sexual violence against women, that women also should protect men from the consequences of their sexual violence against women by shutting up about it, and if they don’t shut up about it then he’ll accuse them of lying.

A decent man, who is unaware of the extent of sexual harassment and violence against women, would be shocked and appalled on hearing how bad it is. He wasn’t appalled by it. He wanted you to shut up about it.

Ask yourself this: who benefits from women being silenced about sexual violence? Your friend is “one of those” men.

I am convinced that he thinks he is one of those "nice guys that would never do anything like that", and also that pointing out that women have to take measures to protect themselves against men is the equivalent of a personal attack against ALL men.
^^
If I am correct, how can I re-broach the subject of "women need single-sex spaces" without making the exclusion of trans women from those spaces seem like a personal attack on all men (including him)?

He’s not going to change his belief that males who want to access women and girls in a state of undress should be entitled to access women and girls in a state of undress. It won’t make any difference how you broach the subject.

I know perfectly well that in the real-world people are being forced to play along with this. I have never said otherwise.

My point has always been that having gender reassignment as a PC in the Equality Act only stops people from discriminating against trans people. It does not force everyone else to believe they have actually changed sex.

I have to "play along with this" at work. My employer isn't completely captured, but I've seen enough to know that if I talked honestly about my GC views, it wouldn't go well for me. My views are protected under the PC of Religion or Belief. But in practice they would be frowned upon if I expressed them at work, and could affect my career, so I keep my mouth shut.

I do get (and respect) what you are saying, but as an old bloke you did make me laugh!

I meant "any old" in the sense of "any random bloke" rather than specifically the chronologically challenged I don't appreciate being lectured on "trans rights" by young men with little skin in the game either.