Genuinely want to know why trans rights trump womens?

[Devilsmommy]

I've been reading alot on here about all the different aspects of the trans debate. So firstly my view is that merely stating you're a different sex does not make it so. I don't have any issue with people wanting to change gender but I am very worried about the possibility of being made to share single sex spaces with men who say they're women. So my question is for the trans women who are genuinely changing their whole identity to become a woman, via surgery and hormones. If those trans women say they don't feel safe using the male spaces, do they really believe it's right that a whole section of the population, ie women, should be made to feel just as unsafe because of their life choice. Why do trans women's rights trump womens rights? I'm genuinely flabbergasted that it's even got this far and we women are having to fight for a very basic right not to feel uncomfortable in vulnerable situations like changing rooms, toilets etc.

If you go back up the thread you'll see I said I don't think disabled people should be inconvenienced by them any more than women should. It was more that they're usually single toilets so it would stop the men using the women's but rightfully it's not fair to the disabled who needs access to it. I just can't see a forth toilet being put in every place there are toilets so I worry that women are just going to be told that we've got to suck it up because those men will be using ours🤨

Fourth ffs

Definitely. Funny how men don't have to "be kind"😤

🤣🤣🤣

For every step Trans take into women's territory, a woman has to take a step back. Soon there will be no women's space.
We will have Men's spaces, Trans in the women's spaces and mixed spaces, but no women's spaces.

How did we get here?

There was a lot of hopeful belief in the emotive anecdotes, and that this was a very special group of men who were fragile and vulnerable, always well intentioned, would reciprocate in care for women, and would never take the piss.

That went well, didn't it? However we've re discovered exactly why sex class based boundaries are needed by women.

And that came on top of the normal every day misogyny that the main role of a female is as a resource for male use. And the kind of unconscious norm we'd all reached that women had been lent a few rights by men, but only until men wanted them back or found them inconvenient.

I think we were all sold the lie that women's rights were sorted thirty years ago, but this has pulled the bandage off a rotting mess. This time we're going to need to do it right.

I would argue we are already there. Mr Starmer's view on this is plain: all spaces are men's spaces. Women may continue to use the men's women's space so long as they are co operative and useful to the men there.

If they are not, they cannot have a space, or resource or service. The men won't let them. Those women are tax payers incidentally. Paying for services that they have been excluded from on a binary, sexed basis. To enable the beliefs of men. In which they have no right of refusal to participate.

And punishment in law by hate crime is rushing this way in Mr Starmer's loving arms.

In essence when you think about it: you are not free to be a woman in society, or have equal access to resources, unless you accept your binary sex based duty to provide and service men. Women may not have an independent or equal existence.

You may however identify out of being a woman if you want.

Can't think why so many transitioners are young girls. It's a puzzle. Who wouldn't want to grow up to be a woman right now?

Thing is, here are far more women than trans.
There are far more men, who would not be seen dead in a women's space than trans.
These people make their voices heard.

How come the governments do not hear this?

I think a lot of people genuinely think that to be ‘trans’ you have to go the whole nine yards, so to speak, they think no man would ever pretend to be a woman because that would simply be too humiliating for a ‘proper’ man to do. They don’t take into account the fact that there are lots of weirdos out there who would not blink at saying something ridiculous if it gets them what they want and that sometimes what they want is to unnerve/hurt/oppress women for no other reason than they can.

Take a local I know in the area. He looks great in a leather mini skirt, I have absolutely no doubt he is absolutely sincere in his transition. I've seen him in local public places on a few occasions when he's drunk mid morning, acting oddly, and if anyone irritates him - especially a woman - you get a scary explosion of rage and misogyny. He often appears only inches away from moving from shouting and screaming to actually decking someone. He's about six two if he takes off his flipflops.

I don't want to be in an enclosed space with him, I wouldn't even if he was lovely as I can't share a mixed sex space. But he isn't lovely, he can be aggressive and terrifying. I don't want to be anywhere near him particularly when he's losing it, and me backing out of a women's loo in terror of upsetting him is likely to set him right off. I've met many women drunk, high and aggressive: they do not scare me as men do for very obvious reasons.

He's sincere though. He's committed.

Assuming, as always, that we're talking about transwomen...

Firstly, because they're men and we're women. They do what they want and we're supposed to agree to it.

Secondly, because most transwomen are just normal, non-violent people, and if people have a transwomen as a friend or family, the odds are that it's someone unthreatening. This supports the idea that there is something inherent in their psychology that makes them the same as women.

For point #2, there are many, many counterarguments that we all know on here - what about Isla Bryson, what about Lia Thomas, what about privacy for women, what about the Hampstead Ponds, what about DV shelters, what about the transwomen who take over IWD, what about Munro Bergdorf, etc. etc. but the allies who believe in #2 just don't think any further about it. If they know and don't care, it's back to #1.

Now this is the real mystery.

Can't think why so many transitioners are young girls. It's a puzzle. Who wouldn't want to grow up to be a woman right now?

Indeed @UpThePankhurst it's a complete mystery isn't it??? 🤔

Yes. And all that's been said already about men's rights trumping women's rights everything.

And what about the women who are enabling this, who are "being kind" to trans-identifying males and essentially telling the rest of us to shut up because we're bigots and "this never happens"? There are plenty of high profile women currying favour with TIMs on social media. Janey Godley in Scotland 🙄 Leanne Wood in Wales. There is no reasoning with them. What is going on with these women? It would almost be forgiveable if they somehow didn't understand but I fear they do understand and choose to favour men and be a "trans ally" 🏳️‍🌈

Yesterday on a women's (😔) Facebook group created to encourage networking, socialising and support in Scotland, a guy appeared. Feminine name, make up but very honest about the fact he is "a boy most of the time..male at home and at work...but want to explore my feminine side by having a girl gang to go shopping etc with...sorry if this is bending the rules..." Cue an absolute FLURRY of women posting welcomes, 😍❤️, hun, brave, strong, honest, being yourself, be the woman that you are (!). Many, many, many more likes, loves, hugs and messages of support than any woman's post recently. In this young man's defence, he made no pretence of being a woman or female. But..but...but...HOW IS IT OK? OK he's not in a public toilet or hospital or changing room; it's just a social media group. I don't want to "go after" individuals, but it just feels like another example of a man feeling it's OK to impinge on a female space and females embracing it*, you know?!
*only one woman gently questioned this young man, asking him to explain what it means to be "a boy most of the time". And I didn't query it either. It would be a dog pile, I suspect, if anyone dared pipe up.

I'm sorry if I've swerved a little off topic 😔 It's just another day of feeling general dismay about all of this and wondering where the he'll it's headed.

Men are not used to experiencing the way women are treated, hence trans women do not like it.

So my question is for the trans women who are genuinely changing their whole identity to become a woman, via surgery and hormones.

Asking the trans women? And expecting to get an honest and unbiased answer?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

ivybridget

You only have to look at the male apologists on here, those who think it is a woman's role to make everything OK, that a woman must be 'kind' and accepting, put herself last, efface herself - it's ingrained, I don't even think they are making a conscious choice.
Then you have the ones that are sucking up to the bully, like the teacher who tries to be a mate.

Oh yes I believe that😆

@ivybridget it really is ridiculous that women would basically fight against their own sex in favour of a man with a kink🙄

I know I know but j just can't get my head around how their feelings somehow matter more than half the populations😅

And we’re also forgetting that service-providers - hospitals, schools, theatres, govt depts - are increasingly providing mixed-sex facilities. Partly because they think they have to, partly because they are afraid of breaking the (very unclear) law, partly because Stonewall has for years advised incorrectly on the law, and partly because it makes you look cool, allows you to tick a diversity box.

I think that many thoughtful, nice people don’t yet realise that many trans-identified men are heterosexual fetishists. They don’t spend as much time in the bowels of the internet as some of us.