Genuinely want to know why trans rights trump womens?

[Devilsmommy]

I've been reading alot on here about all the different aspects of the trans debate. So firstly my view is that merely stating you're a different sex does not make it so. I don't have any issue with people wanting to change gender but I am very worried about the possibility of being made to share single sex spaces with men who say they're women. So my question is for the trans women who are genuinely changing their whole identity to become a woman, via surgery and hormones. If those trans women say they don't feel safe using the male spaces, do they really believe it's right that a whole section of the population, ie women, should be made to feel just as unsafe because of their life choice. Why do trans women's rights trump womens rights? I'm genuinely flabbergasted that it's even got this far and we women are having to fight for a very basic right not to feel uncomfortable in vulnerable situations like changing rooms, toilets etc.

@Peskysquirrel no probs, I saw that thread and gave myself a headache from the constant 🙄

@Lovesgotme that wonder being quote made me🤣 though it would seem you are right with the "trans trumps everything" 🤨

Because then they would be taking facilities, extremely hard won facilities btw, from disabled people when said facilities are already inadequate in number. This isn't disabled people's problem to solve, any more than it is women's. It's men (presenting as women) who claim to feel/be unsafe in men's facilities because of other men, it's men's problem to solve!

I don't see why they can't just use the disabled access toilets. That way they're not having to feel unsafe in the men's and they're not making women feel unsafe and uncomfortable in the ladies 🤷

Why should people with disabilities be disadvantaged just because a man is unable or unwilling to accept that he is male?

Pretty sure the new government will be sorting this out as a major priority ,not.

Because that means trans rights trump the rights of disabled people.

Toilets designated 'Disabled' are for disabled people only

Trans identified people can campaign for fourth spaces, leaving male, female and disabled toilets to those for whom they are intended.

If those trans women say they don't feel safe using the male spaces, do they really believe it's right that a whole section of the population, ie women, should be made to feel just as unsafe because of their life choice.

Even more basically - if transwomen who have "transitioned" both socially and via surgery and hormones don't feel safe using male spaces and services and therefore wish to use women's spaces and services, how will they feel or be safe if any male can now access all women's spaces and services (the logical conclusion of self-ID)? The argument that some men need to use women's spaces due to safety concerns - leaving aside for a moment the point that this is not the problem of women and is something that can and should be corrected by men - logically necessitates MORE policing of who is considered trans, not less.

This, however, is a line of discussion that Labour, Lib Dem, SNP, Plaid, and Green politicians not only cannot address, but apparently literally cannot hear.

I thought exactly that, but that is unfair on the disabled, they don't choose to be disabled. I actually wrote that as my first suggestion but then deleted it in respect.
I think my post has been deleted though🤔

That. ^^

Yes.

When you think about it, what greater expression is there of men's rights than to control and enforce a woman enacting a belief and stating as commanded that he is a woman, even against the evidence of her eyes? Even when that requires her to undress in a way she would not have to do for any other man? Even when that requires her to accept intimate touch such as post rape examination and her refusal of all other men has been honoured?

It is not a 'trans' issue. It is a men issue. And if you can find a grain of reciprocal respect, kindness, understanding, compassion and indulgence coming from said men and their supporters towards women to balance the exceptional demands they make upon women? I'd be glad, because I haven't found one yet.

Explain that a raped woman cannot use a mixed sex service and please can she have one she can access alongside the three careful options for men of all identity choices, and she is told that not only is her refusal to put the men's needs first unacceptable hate on her part, but that it is right she is punished by loss of service and care.

I mean, words fail. It's basic human decency, what kind of people think like this?!

With bells on.

And with regards to FWR, it is not just entitlement, there is also a level of testosterone-fuelled aggression that comes across from certain posters that outs them as TW.

They can wear whatever they like but their very maleness stays with them, and you do not have to be in their physical presence to know that they are not female. The only people they are deluding are themselves.

I don't think disabled people should be disadvantaged for them but equally neither should women be. They should just stick to the men's and stop infringing on women and girls

GenericMNwoman · Today 14:47

Fortunately more and more men are waking up to this and, very reasonably, are concerned about their wives, mothers, daughters, friends, and women in general.

That pretty well sums me up, I'm very worried for my daughter. She came home from school in Y3, spouting all sorts of rubbish, after a course they did. I'd become aware of the situation beforehand and thought, "WTF? WTAF?"

I'd been online, looking for advice on how to get her interested in a sport and found articles about the likes of Rachel McKinnon and was just flabbergasted. I really dislike liars, cheats and bullies and in sports alone, it's 3 for the price of 1.

That led on to all the other situations in which women and girls are gaslit and intimidated and I found it shocking that such a manifestly unfair situation could be promoted by people apparently intelligent enough to know better.

@UpThePankhurst words really do fucking fail. Yes let's just not give a shit about rape victims because I've decided I'm a woman 🤬

Because humans are primarily an emotion led social mammal species and instinct need for social belonging is a much stronger drive than rationality and following the evidence.

Because the past couple of decades had not erased millenia of misogyny from human (male and female) psyche and our social and political culture.
Because most people are selfish and don't care much about things that don't directly affect them, and find it satisfying to take strong moral stands on things that they will never have to take a hit for.

I went over to that other thread to read it and I'm now enraged at the 'head in the sand be kinders' on there basically denying women's concerns, so I've slunk back off again to the naughty corner.

To go back to this thread, I read a quote ages ago (I've forgotten who wrote it unfortunately), which was:-

"When society will believe a man who says he is a woman over a woman who says he's not, then that tells you that society knows exactly who the men are and exactly who the women are."

Summed it up for me pretty well when I read it. I think it was a GIF but it was someone's quote, I wish I can remember who. It just made it so clear to me. Society will always always side with men. Always. Despite all efforts to make things equal between the sexes, this is still and will sadly always be, a man's world...

Because we never say no to men.

It's a brilliant quote! From Jen Izaakson if I recall.

Kara Dansky seems to attribute that quote to Jen Izaakson.

The irony being if anyone actually thought TW were women, their rights wouldn't trump women's. But because they're men, they do. Oh. Wait.

It’s the special men playing the top trump victim card

I was listening to Blair this morning being all how did we get here

Did he have a memory fail and forget the GRA?

It shows how little he thought of women and children when creating it

Because what men want always, always supercedes what women want. Even if the men are wearing red lipstick and killer heels.

This is how we know that trans women are still men because they're so happy to trample on womens' rights.

You really can't see a reason for someone without a disability using a disability toilet?

Male entitlement and female competitive “kindness”.

It's so frustrating. Just as we were starting to significantly challenge gender stereotyping in society and culture, in the 90s and early 2000s, along comes New Labour to put the awfully sexist concept of "living in the acquired gender" into law and take us back decades again.