WPUK with the help of AGCL have written an article to stop silly gender critical feminists thinking facists are pro women!

[IwantToRetire]

The resurgence of the far right
https://womansplaceuk.org/2024/07/08/the-resurgence-of-the-far-right/

WPUK = Women's Place UK
AGCL = Actual Gender Critical Left

I am sure many women whether feminist or not would welcome a pro-active movement by women to oppose racism and facism.

But this article, as always by what seems to becoming a clique, is just a vehicle to attack other women activists in the UK and USA who have chosen to work in different ways to them.

If, for instance KJK hadn't set up Party of Women and had chosen to attach herself to one of the parties entioned in the article would make sense to raise quesions. But she didn't, she set up an independent party with no allegiances.

WoLF in the US have worked with a range of groups and politicians in pursuit of their primary aims. Why keep harping back to the one occassion they were on the same platform as a group that also had concerns about the impact of trans ideology on children. Is a campaign group being bi-partisan unacceptable?

Wouldn't it be a relief if these two groups would just grow up and stop their endless vendettas and actually do something pro-active?

Think how effective WPUK was in their early days when they just focused on the issue and encourage other women to engage.

They seem to have got bogged down in this circle of virtue and less effective.

Instead of sighing about how wonderful women in France were, why aren't they similarly organising?

As usual its so much easer to blame women, rather than for instance challeging the male left to accept and work and support women who know that sex is a biological reality.

See thread from 2 years ago https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again

I note that much text has been spilled, largely over whether KJK is some far right menace. But, suppose one accepts that (I don't), then:

• What is WPUK offering me, a left-wing lesbian?

Because, so far, I've had certain of their directors and friends privately threaten me (to say I was to remain quiet about a law professor sexually harassing women or I'd be excommunicated); post distressing falsehoods about my private life; phone friends to try and silence me, and possibly more things of which I'm unaware. Even if I happened to agree with their mission, the behaviour of some has alienated me from what passes for UK feminism.

And the public face of UK feminism, as far as I can tell, is largely constituted by middle-class Guardian readers of limited intelligence who have numerous meetings and lunches with the same five people but who do very little for women who actually need help.

I've been sued four times. The first time everyone knows about. The second, third, and fourth time, I dealt with it myself, at considerable cost, because it was made clear that I had brought it upon myself (the same mysteriously doesn't apply to anyone in their circle who encounters legal difficulties). It was also made clear that I "deserved" my eviction from York - "impolitical", "offensive", "gone mad" are all comments said privately. The effect, for a long time, was to make me feel small and not go to any events. Now? I'll do what I please.

Ordinary, and certainly vulnerable, women are more likely to be harmed by WPUK and friends rather than find a political and social home that promotes effective activism. They offer nothing and try to trash everything that doesn't pass muster.

Including women.

I note that much text has been spilled, largely over whether KJK is some far right menace.

You must be reading a different thread to me. Can you offer any quotes from this thread that do this?

It’s really disconcerting to see this continuous straw manning.

Personally, I turn off as soon as anyone mentions 'the patriarchy' or 'dismantling the patriarchy' or when the word misogyny is used too liberally

Interesting perspective for someone posting on a feminist board

And I’m really sorry to hear you’ve been sued multiple times and that you’ve had those distressing interactions you described, but I’m not clear how that is related to WPUK? They’re a small volunteer led grassroots campaign, were you hoping they could provide legal support or something?

I'm reading it as WPUK women contributing to the reasons for her being sued. Did you read the part about WPUK 'directors and friends' threatening her to try and shut her up about her experience of sexual abuse?

Ditto for KJK. Whatever their feelings, women should not be providing arguments to support violent men who seek reasons to attack women. There's a way to disagree respectfully about what someone's actually said making sure you honestly report what they've actually said. Making stuff up and smearing so a woman faces violent retribution is not ok. KJK has kids who've been targeted too FFS. Just give it up already.

It's very clear WPUK hates KJK, we get it. We don't care, she doesn't care.

I've been to LWS events and as a boring, disenfranchised woman I can just stand up and speak. Can't do that at WPUK events.

Well, the messages that, on any reasonable interpretation, were threatening came from a combination of WPUK and their envoy, and of course, I have no record of phone calls (a notable one involved a professor threatening to post our legal chat knowing it would upset my case if I did not "apologise" for perceived misdeeds).

The point is taken about legal support, but what I didn't expect was to be told that the situation was largely one of my own making. I'm involved in various local-ish initiatives and, without fail, no-one wants anything to do with WPUK and Filia. The former are perceived as being out of touch with our concerns and the latter is perceived as having, on some occasions, actively harmed women (e.g. the violent removal of an autistic woman from their conference).

Whether or not that's unfair, I won't comment on. But that's the perception.

I don’t think it’s fair to take arguments with women, that you associate with WPUK (their “envoy” as you put it), and use that as a stick to beat WPUK with. It sounds like personal disagreements.

It is not women who I merely "associate" with WPUK but women who, according to their site, constitute the board.

It's curious though how objections are framed as personal whereas their multiple blogs and posts about one woman is merely "political disagreement."

😂
It's like a script. It is possible to share an opinion with WPUK without being one of them

I’m not Jayne, but you are personally attacking me now.

This is just another derail from the topic of the far right.

And to be honest, saying someone's written "a disgusting pack of lies" with no substantiation of what the "lies" are, how you know they are "lies" and why they are disgusting isn't very helpful.

In my experience, when one starts researching these "lies" one finds its a bit more complicated than that.

Also it's like a script and if one posts anything other than "it's disgusting lies" one will get piled on, questioned, called bad faith, obsessed etc.

It's weird. And I'm sure off-putting to people exploring the board.

It's interesting that when people start a thread linking articles sourced from right wing or far right organisations, people are encouraged to engage with only the content of the article and any critique based on the source is a "purity spiral" but today everyone can ignore the content because they don't like WPUK.

Yep. Also a purity spiral in my opinion.

I'm noting how your defence of their apparently well intentioned blogging has now morphed into telling me that I'm making untrue accusations.

I'm talking about my actual experiences. That's pretty close to the definition of gaslighting, no? Telling me my actual experience is untrue? When you apparently knew nothing about any of this at the beginning of the thread?

Yes but just because you’ve been bashing WPUK for 6 or 7 years and portraying them as means girls purity spiralling, for occasionally talking about the far right, doesn’t make your accusations more true. Maybe it would be helpful to give it a rest now.

If you want to describe my pointing out your gaslighting as a personal attack go ahead, readers can make their own mind up. I have.

Nor do I think they are purity spiralling, I think they are stupid and spiteful.

What are your personal experiences? So far you’ve been saying things like “those women never stop talking about Tommy Robinson” and that they ignore groups like SEEN and “we know the truth”.

Who are you talking to?

I understand the blog. What I don't understand is why it is being constructed as an attack on KJK and PoW.

And it seems that no-one is able to explain why in straightforward terms, which undermines any points about how blatant this attack is.

What was the event?

Edit: just catching up with the thread and I can see that this has been answered.

And I’m really sorry to hear you’ve been sued multiple times

The fact that you aren't aware of this tells me that you aren't really aware of a lot of the background here, so not the best qualified to pronounce on this issue.

A lot happens in this space. I was more involved 2016-2018. Things were very different then. Since then I’ve not followed as closely, including the various legal cases of which there are a lot. I’ve only joined mumsnet relatively recently.

Despite what some posters say, you don't have to be "qualified" to post on an Internet discussion forum

Not what I said

There's been alot of ink spilled about the resurgence of the far right and never have I read an analysis by a self professed left wing author with such a dearth of class analysis.
It is a very strange blog post.