Transgirl teen in girls spaces

[WhatTheHellIsThisBollox]

Found out that a 15yr old transgirl is using the girls toilets and changing rooms in my DC's local secondary school. Told by staff. Different year group to my DC.

Several girls haven't taken part in PE since this decision was made.

This is in Wales. I fully support the rights of anyone to live their life, but this? No way. I didn't think that this was allowed in schools anymore.

mansplainingsincethe90s · Today 11:28
Can I ask, because I really don't get it, what's the problem with a trans girl doing a wee or a poo in the girls toilet?

So we accept that it is the girl's toilet.
Because it is a toilet, and not a coffee shop, the girls are sitting with their knickers down, mid whichever bodily function. That is a pretty vulnerable position, as any mother of a toddler will tell you.

The girl is possibly inserting a tampon, or attaching a pad to her knickers. She may be wrapping up her used sanitary protection prior to placing it in the bin.
Can you imagine if the door opens, or is forced open?

She has her privacy inside the cubicle, but she is in a vulnerable position, and does not want teenage boys in the room. Teenage boy might be the sweetest ever, but we don't know that.
Outside of the cubicle she may want to use a vending machine, because she needs more sanitary protection. She may want to hoik up her skirt to adjust tights. She might want to rezip her trousers.

Do you really not get why she does not want a boy in the toilets?

She may also be of a culture that forbids her from being alone in any space with unrelated boys and men . She may need privacy to observe religious practices , eg to adjust her head covering .
She may be a survivor of sexual abuse or rape and thus be terrified of being in an even more vulnerable state in the presence of boys and men .
She may be actively hiding or escaping from a threatening boy or group of boys and need a space where she can legitimately and lawfully expect there to be no males , however those boys identify .
'Toilets' are not just for peeing and pooing .

See above. Are those girls expected to not use the toilet to pander to a boy?

This reflects Stonewall's recommended answer to the recent schools consultation, which stated that any boy who claims a trans identity should have full access to girls’ changing rooms and toilets. This is despite the obvious safeguarding and human rights issues. The suggestion from Stonewall is that it is girls who should be kept out of girls changing rooms if they object to being seen undressing by males.
This is misogyny, an attempt to normalise the abuse and harrassment of girls, punishing girls for protecting their human rights, bodily privacy and sexual boundaries from males. Preventing girls from being able to say no to males who want to be present when they are undressed is at the heart of rape culture.

Also in the school will be girls who have experienced rape and sexual assault, including children of transitioners, whose safety and dignity depends being able to assert their right to bodily privacy from males.

Here are links:
Often schools will not know about what is happening in these girl's private lives until social workers become involved- anyone for Challoner?

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/09/25/not-shutting-up

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/how-to-help-children-of-transitioners

Girls skip school rather than use gender-neutral toilets - The Christian Institute

It has been a lengthy campaign by trans lobby groups to remove female right to bodily privacy from males- here's WPUK..

https://womansplaceuk.org/2018/06/25/references-to-removal-of-single-sex-exemptions

Is there anything positive for the girls when they share their spaces with a boy? There are many, many negatives but I can't see how it can benefit the girls. If it's only going to create negative experiences then how on earth can anyone claim it to be the right thing to do?

The only message the girls receive is that boys are more important than them and that their role in life is to make boys happy. Yay for the patriarchy!

probably also worth saying in schools that follow Stonewall law (as opposed to respecting the fact sex is immutable and girls need privacy from males and to be able to correct recognise someone's sex ) it's girls who dare speak the truth that get bullied, not the kids who are gender distressed.
Girl, 18, 'driven out of school' for questioning transgender ideology - LBC

It's a really hostile environment in many schools for CSA survivors who the school try and coerce into pretending males are female.

Thanks for sharing all of that.

I agree with the poster upthread that petitions are not 'bullying', that's girls campaigning for single sex spaces.

Bullying is rife in schools and a horrible problem. It shouldn't be tolerated.

All children should be safe and respected in school, without exception.

Have you ever taken a dump in the men's loo? It's rank. If I could use the ladies I would every time. Much nicer. Ours smell of stale urine from the piss bowls and the casual attitude to aiming when pissing at the sit down toilets. Very lucky if you have a working seat. Guaranteed to have the remains of the previous guys dump in the bowl. Maybe they'll be some loo roll. Maybe.

So because men make the gents horrible, women should let them in to make theirs horrible too?

Affording @mansplainingsincethe90s the courtesy of assuming he is posting in good faith. I think he may be under the common misapprehension that a transwoman/girl is a female who identifies as male when it's actually the opposite.

It's a way to distinguish which group I'm referring to using the word 'woman', as otherwise there would be a group of mumsnetters who included transwomen in 'women' and a group who did not. I could make up a new term like 'natal women' or something, but there is already a much more commonly used term.

No, cis is a gender term used by people who follow gender ideology. You can't use it for atheists. Natal women or biological women is a far clearer term than cis women and will be understood by far more people. Cis is only commonly used by genderists to refer to people, if you went out in the street and asked people at random what a cis woman was then most would have no idea what the cis bit means. They would virtually all understand natal or biological woman.

Absolutely agree on that point and thought the same when reading the quote. The reason I still shared it is because of the devastating reality of children being sexually assaulted due to their identification. I can very much see why he would feel unsafe getting changed in a group changing room in light of that, as well as due to his gender distress. Clearly there needs to be systemic changes at that school also.

You can say "biological woman" if you must. That is the most widely used and well understood term, not "cis". "Natal woman" is not something you invented, it's not widely used but I've seen it in some medical contexts. "Cis" is not commonly used in wider society (e.g. not in mainstream newspapers nor by mainstream politicians), it is not politically neutral and it is not a term of respect.

A good point. Interestingly a user here explained how just a few years ago, transsexuals used the term ‘biological women’ when needing to distinguish. I use woman and trans-identified male as I believe that accurately reflects reality. All women are ‘biological women’. But regardless it’s interesting to see that the supposedly transphobic term ‘biological women’ was widely used by transsexuals in the past.

Though round here "woman" or "girl" will do. No need for a qualifier.

Women will do. It isn't women who are the subset.

The state of your lavatories , how you men use them and leave them is not our problem.

Yes,it's 'women'.

The other lot are men.

mansplainingsincethe90s,

I am beginning to feel a little queasy.
We have explained why women do not want men in their toilets, and hopefully answered your question.

Don’t mind about toilet, but def don’t want transgirl to be in girls changing room.

I see.

So women should let men piss all over their toilets too?

I see.

So women should let men piss all over their toilets too?

Marking our territory as well as their own.
'Have some of that!' No thanks.