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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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26
ScrollingLeaves · 01/07/2024 11:03

ArabellaScott · 01/07/2024 10:45

Never mind the male gaze, it seems we are encouraged to actually see things through the rapist's gaze.

What she says is probably true, but they are nevertheless criminals and rapists. Many in prison for violent crimes come from deeply troubled pasts, but they are nevertheless criminals. Society can look for new ways to treat them, and for ways to prevent young people from growing into being like them, but they cannot just be exonerated.

Lovelyview · 01/07/2024 11:07

I received the same response. I replied as follows:

Thank you for your reply. I would ask the Dutch National Olympic Committee to consider two things.

  1. There is a woman out there who was raped as a 12-year-old by your athlete Steven van de Velde. He may have served his ridiculously light sentence but she has been sentenced to a life traumatised by his actions. She was left suicidal by what happened.
  2. Steven van de Velde should not be an Olympian. Olympians should be held to high standards when they represent their country and a paedophile should never be elevated to that position.

I understand my words have no power with you but I will say them anyway.

cupcaske123 · 01/07/2024 11:10

The article also says

Hamburg authorities are reportedly investigating 140 people for "insulting, threatening or otherwise discriminating" against the Stadtpark predators.

ScrollingLeaves · 01/07/2024 11:12

Lovelyview · 01/07/2024 11:07

I received the same response. I replied as follows:

Thank you for your reply. I would ask the Dutch National Olympic Committee to consider two things.

  1. There is a woman out there who was raped as a 12-year-old by your athlete Steven van de Velde. He may have served his ridiculously light sentence but she has been sentenced to a life traumatised by his actions. She was left suicidal by what happened.
  2. Steven van de Velde should not be an Olympian. Olympians should be held to high standards when they represent their country and a paedophile should never be elevated to that position.

I understand my words have no power with you but I will say them anyway.

I have not had a reply yet

oakleaffy · 01/07/2024 11:13

cupcaske123 · 01/07/2024 11:10

The article also says

Hamburg authorities are reportedly investigating 140 people for "insulting, threatening or otherwise discriminating" against the Stadtpark predators.

It's actually terrifying that brutal rapists are protected, where women are not.

Gang rape appears to be alarmingly common in Germany, with the perps protected.

It's all so wrong.

biscuitandcake · 01/07/2024 11:26

As I said earlier, it isn't a matter of the immigrants not integrating into German culture. In the rapist's case their views on the worth of women and girls seem to be being reinforced by the German authorities attitudes. This is the result. (it's also not fair on other non rapey immigrants. Mostly the ones being raped and abused themselves which will 100% be happening).

In the Netherlands meanwhile, the abuse of young girls is less important that men's beach volleyball. And no-one gives a shit about men's beach volleyball but girls somehow still count for even less.

cupcaske123 · 01/07/2024 11:29

oakleaffy · 01/07/2024 11:13

It's actually terrifying that brutal rapists are protected, where women are not.

Gang rape appears to be alarmingly common in Germany, with the perps protected.

It's all so wrong.

What happened to that girl is sickening. Absolutely no humanity was shown towards her yet critics of the rapists are being investigated and understanding was shown towards their depravity.

Those women who were sexually assaulted in Cologne en masse saw no justice either. I can understand why people are angry.

biscuitandcake · 01/07/2024 11:32

Toxic empathy
Being kind is important. But if you are kind to rapists, you are cruel to rape victims.

UpThePankhurst · 01/07/2024 11:40

It is quite important to pin down the meaning of 'kind'. And 'respect'.

Does it mean submissive?
Enabling?
Obedient?
Expecting no reciprocity?
Laying down normal boundaries?

What and who exactly are those weasel words serving and what are they busy disguising? And why does it need to be disguised?

cupcaske123 · 01/07/2024 11:54

biscuitandcake · 01/07/2024 11:32

Toxic empathy
Being kind is important. But if you are kind to rapists, you are cruel to rape victims.

Edited

I don't think that being kind towards rapists and paedophiles is necessary at all. I think justice and fairness is important. I can understand research into rape in order to prevent it but I have no understanding of someone who is reaching for excuses.

ArcaneWireless · 01/07/2024 13:20

“Sex is also a means of venting frustration and anger, a means of warding off sadness and emptiness, and in a group of men with the same fate it also creates identity and strengthens the group feeling.”

It’s about an immediate need, opportunity, inner conviction and the right of the stronger.”

The right of the stronger.

Like Arabella, this sickens me to my core.

There is no excuse nor justification for rape.

This mealie mouthed babble is merely telling victims they don’t matter but the hurty feelies of the perpetrators do.

It is disgraceful, disgusting and shameful.

Sobeautiful · 01/07/2024 13:32

similarminimer · 01/07/2024 06:52

Got a reply from Dutch Olympic comms

We sincerely thank you for your response. We are deeply aware that the renewed publicity about Steven van de Velde is causing a lot of emotion, which we fully understand, as the events at that time were very serious.
A lot has happened since then. Steven van de Velde served his sentence and has completed an extensive rehabilitation program with specialized professionals, including the probation service. During this process, Van de Velde has shown that he has grown and that he has positively changed his live. Experts have concluded that there is no risk of recidivism. In 2018, he gave a some interviews about his offence and its consequences. (Please take a moment to watch the w_ that Steven gave to Dutch national television).
The Dutch national volleyball federation (Nevobo) as well as the Dutch National Olympic Committee (NOCNSF) have closely monitored Steven’s progress and explicitly followed the advice of experts. This process has been fully in line with the Dutch Guidelines Integrity Recordss_, which set out the conditions that must be met by athletes to be given a second chance after a conviction.
Steven has been given this second chance and has been participating (since 2017) on international elite sport level. Throughout this time, he has consistently met the high standards set by the volleyball federation and NOC
NSF.
Based on all of the above and after careful consideration, NOC*NSF has decided to select Steven van de Velde for the Olympic Games in Paris.

Yours sincerely,
Lieselot Meelker
Corporate communications NOC*NSF

I struggle to believe this. He was sentenced in March 2016, released in 2017 and back playing at an elite international level also in 2017. How extensive was this alleged rehabilitation? Reading that response it appears as though he was back competing in 2017 whilst still on probation.

Sobeautiful · 01/07/2024 13:34

Sorry didn't mean to copy the whole post

biscuitandcake · 01/07/2024 14:04

Sobeautiful · 01/07/2024 13:32

I struggle to believe this. He was sentenced in March 2016, released in 2017 and back playing at an elite international level also in 2017. How extensive was this alleged rehabilitation? Reading that response it appears as though he was back competing in 2017 whilst still on probation.

He was. More than that, his teammate at the time he was extradited gave an interview saying how shocked he was, how actually he hadn't been in contact for a while etc. The second his friend was released they were teammates again. So clearly he wasn't that shocked. And there's a lovely YouTube video from 2018 about what stand-up guys "Steven" and his partner are.

IamaRevenant · 01/07/2024 15:27

Brainworm · 01/07/2024 08:20

This comes down to philosophical stances on crime and punishment and ideas around punitive versus rehabilitative justice.

If someone commits a hideous crime, goes to prison, is rehabilitated should they be able to live a life equal to others who never committed a crime? I expect some would say absolutely, some would say absolutely not, and others would say they should have some limits placed on them (so they have equality in some aspects of life but not others).

Depends on the crime.

Something like fraud, robbery, assault yes I am all for rehabilitation.

Paedophilia? No. I don't think you can have therapy that talks you out of a certain sexual preference. Maybe not to act on it.

My neighbour is a convicted paedophile (he abducted an 11 year old and raped her). This is an old conviction (about 15 years ago).

Recently I saw a girl about the same age walking with him and felt I had to call the police as it's just clear that his interest in young girls is enduring. He disappeared for quite a few weeks (we live in a HA block so I'd usually bump into him regularly so I assume he was detained).

Sorry, rambling reply but I don't believe paedophiles can usually be rehabilitated. I worry for all the young girls in the Olympic Village with him.

biscuitandcake · 01/07/2024 16:14

There's a really good lundy Bancroft description of what genuine remorse/restitution for something terrible looks like that stuck in my mind. I will try to find it later but it's long. Spoiler alert - Van De Velde doesn't pass it.

biscuitandcake · 01/07/2024 16:28

And it's not just that the sexual preference is so ingrained. It's also that the people who commit those crimes are entitled, self centred and arrogant. They have to be do do what they do. It's completely different to a teenager with low self esteem/poverty issues/addiction robbing a house. The types of therapy to rebuild self esteem etc can make abusers worse because it encourages the to focus on themselves. As does being chosen for the Olympics. The Dutch have done everything to Not rehabilitate him.

ArabellaScott · 01/07/2024 16:45

IamaRevenant · 01/07/2024 15:27

Depends on the crime.

Something like fraud, robbery, assault yes I am all for rehabilitation.

Paedophilia? No. I don't think you can have therapy that talks you out of a certain sexual preference. Maybe not to act on it.

My neighbour is a convicted paedophile (he abducted an 11 year old and raped her). This is an old conviction (about 15 years ago).

Recently I saw a girl about the same age walking with him and felt I had to call the police as it's just clear that his interest in young girls is enduring. He disappeared for quite a few weeks (we live in a HA block so I'd usually bump into him regularly so I assume he was detained).

Sorry, rambling reply but I don't believe paedophiles can usually be rehabilitated. I worry for all the young girls in the Olympic Village with him.

Thank you for looking out for that girl.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 01/07/2024 17:46

biscuitandcake · 01/07/2024 16:14

There's a really good lundy Bancroft description of what genuine remorse/restitution for something terrible looks like that stuck in my mind. I will try to find it later but it's long. Spoiler alert - Van De Velde doesn't pass it.

Yes, Van de Velde doesn't appear to have any remorse or shame, just feeling hard done by that he keeps being called a paedophile (because he is).

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 01/07/2024 17:47

I've also emailed.

cupcaske123 · 18/07/2024 16:33

zibzibara · 18/07/2024 16:30

https://nos-nl.translate.goog/artikel/2529251-van-de-velde-krijgt-na-onrust-over-veroordeling-aparte-accommodatie-bij-spelen?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

He's getting his own special accommodation block and Olympics authorities have barred the press from asking him questions. More special treatment for this vile rapist.

Let's hope him being separate will protect others.

Omlettes · 18/07/2024 17:58

ageratum1 · 26/06/2024 09:46

Because he has served his sentence.

NO, he served 12mths which is an absolute insult. And even if he had served 4 years, he still should not be representing Netherlands at the Olympics.
Give your head a shake.

Grammarnut · 18/07/2024 19:47

That the Netherlands is happy to be represented by a paedophile makes one question other aspects of their society, sadly.

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