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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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42
ArabellaScott · 28/06/2024 16:42

Datun · 28/06/2024 16:41

Is there a share token, or an archive version, sinner?

https://archive.ph/PYH7q

Datun · 28/06/2024 16:43

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2024 16:42

Thank you!

Datun · 28/06/2024 16:45

Oh, I can't make it work. It just stays blank.

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2024 17:03

Datun · 28/06/2024 16:45

Oh, I can't make it work. It just stays blank.

Oh. Funny, it's stil working for me. Sorry. Try pasting the url directly into archive.ph.

Windymoore · 28/06/2024 17:05

Hepwo · 28/06/2024 16:48

https://dailysceptic.org/2024/06/28/u-k-employers-supporting-division-and-intolerance/

This was on my feed on LinkedIn, it's being discussed as an employer and marketing issue now on that platform.

Edited

That's really positive: if this is making HR rethink their EDI decisions, that could help with changing institutions back to 'common sense'(i.e., Human History until 14 years ago)

TempestTost · 28/06/2024 17:09

Namechangeforobviousreasons100 · 28/06/2024 12:18

I don’t recall her saying that. She did say that the UK’s wealth “was not due to colonial history or racial privilege” though

That's not a crazy POV, while it's pretty much taken as a given on the progressive left, plenty of historians would agree with her, and she's certainly not the first black women from an African country that was colonized that I have heard say the same thing.

This is frankly the problem with the left now. I don't know when it happened, but there are certain ideas which they believe are somehow self-evident and unquestionable, and everyone agrees about them except a few bigots - when in fact that are ideas that are not established nearly that strongly and may in fact be controversial among experts. They aren't even discussible among progressives, they are simply dogma.

TempestTost · 28/06/2024 17:16

GiveMeSpanakopita · 28/06/2024 12:54

My theory (and it really is no more than a theory) is that sexist conservative men tend to have more innate respect for the vitally important (and still usually female) roles of mother and manager of the home. Whether that's because of fond memories of nanny in the nursery or matron at school I don't know, and of course it too often tips into an assumption that a woman's role is still largely in the kitchen or as a SAHM. But the respect for those roles is there: they respect those spheres, and the millennia of female passed down expertise that's gone into them.

Whereas lefty men, for whatever reason, don't value or respect these things. I used to move in very lefty/queer circles (don't worry; I'm better now) in the early 00s when postmodernism and queer theory was really starting to make an impact in the UK and what always struck me was the sheer disrespect and even disgust for the role of mothers. (Plus also the transactionalisation of sex which I think lies at the route of the trans movement). I think a lot of the current generation of progressive elites also came up in those circles and that's why they hate terfs so much, cos a lot of terfs are mothers for extremely obvious reasons that we don't need to go into here.

I'm just thinking out loud as I type but this is kind of how I see it. And it needs to be fixed because otherwise we're gonna see more female Gen As going down the tradwife route, cos that's where they think they'll get the most respect for their femaleness.

Edited

I agree with this.

The only thing I would say is - most conservative men aren't particularly sexist, nor do they have ideas about fixed "gender roles". I don't think they are really more likely to be sexists than men on the left. That's about personality, not politics.

They do respect motherhood, and think that it is a real role with a biological basis. Some women (and men) on the left interpret that as believing in fixed "gender roles' but I don't think that's nearly as easy an equivalency as they believe.

Apart from that they tend to be as accepting as women in powerful roles as left progressives, and as you say, sometimes more so I think. There are a lot of conservative women and they don't tend to be shrinking violets.

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 17:45

Fuck me he really is a massive cunt isn’t he

No he isn't - inferring that the worst thing anyone can be is part of the female anatomy is classic male misogyny

He is a massive prick, a dick on sticks or other thins that MNHQ would probably delete.

What next, saying Starmer is such a stupid tit or boobie

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 17:49

Clearly 70s Women's Liberation had had no impact on them whatsoever.

Except for more sex and licence to abuse women and appear cool, as in sex work is work.

Sorry - not sure where you got that idea from. Factually incorrect.

What you are talking about is 3rd Wave Feminism, which was part of the male backlash against Women's Liberation! And the growth of gender ideology.

INeedAPensieve · 28/06/2024 17:50

I can't believe that interview DT did after that speech and the reaction to it. I'd not held out much hope for an apology or anything, I'd thought maybe he would say something mealy mouthed like "I didn't mean to phrase it like that but I stand by it trans kids blah blah" but to call reasonable concerns about safeguarding and women's rights "whinging fuckers"? Well...

Shocking. And depressing.

illinivich · 28/06/2024 18:06

Tennant seems to be all over the place ideologically.

He's libertarian in that he wants no state interference with how he brings up his child, yet wants the state to enforce and teach trans ideology to other people children.

elgreco · 28/06/2024 18:06

Make it make sense

lonelywater · 28/06/2024 18:10

elgreco · 28/06/2024 18:06

Make it make sense

Here you go-Tennant is a thick nasty cunt. Hope that helps.

ScrollingLeaves · 28/06/2024 18:12

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 17:49

Clearly 70s Women's Liberation had had no impact on them whatsoever.

Except for more sex and licence to abuse women and appear cool, as in sex work is work.

Sorry - not sure where you got that idea from. Factually incorrect.

What you are talking about is 3rd Wave Feminism, which was part of the male backlash against Women's Liberation! And the growth of gender ideology.

I stand corrected then to have got that wrong in some way. I am ignorant about specific waves of feminism.

But the spirit of what I was trying to say, is that I saw that what happened with ‘Make love not war’ and the Pill etc of the ‘60s and 70s, was on the one hand liberation from restrictive rules for girls and women, and in another way something that gradually lead to expectations from men that could be abusive and exploitative. Problems were created too.

My train of thought was triggered by another thread on this board at the moment about a Dutch volley ball player who has been allowed on the Olympic team for Paris even though he was convicted when he was 19 of flying over to England to rape 12 year old girl he had met on-line. He served one year, of a four year sentence given out in England, in Holland, where they translated his crime as indecency with a minor. The young girl was badly affected as you’d expect.

The discussion got on to how ‘Liberal’ Holland is supposed to be, but how what that ‘Liberality’ really means is that something like rape is more easily dismissed and men are freer from
boundaries. Some posters wrote from there. They also have the highest rates in Europe of child abuse porn.

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 18:16

But the spirit of what I was trying to say, is that I saw that what happened with ‘Make love not war’ and the Pill etc of the ‘60s and 70s, was on the one hand liberation from restrictive rules for girls and women, and in another way something that gradually lead to expectations from men that could be abusive and exploitative. Problems were created too.

Although popular media feminism never reflects this, it was in fact the very left, liberal male priviledge hippy ideas you have listed that prompted women in the US and the UK to form an autonomous women's liberation.

Almost from the start it became clear that all these young men who thought they were anti establishment and wanted an alternative life style didn't extend that to women. Women were there to cook, roll spliffs, have children and now they could always be replaced by a younger version.

It was so grossly and overtly hypocritical, that it made a lot of women, really, really ANGRY!!

Edited to add: very little to do with universities, although needless to say they swooped in and tried to own it.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 28/06/2024 18:53

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 18:16

But the spirit of what I was trying to say, is that I saw that what happened with ‘Make love not war’ and the Pill etc of the ‘60s and 70s, was on the one hand liberation from restrictive rules for girls and women, and in another way something that gradually lead to expectations from men that could be abusive and exploitative. Problems were created too.

Although popular media feminism never reflects this, it was in fact the very left, liberal male priviledge hippy ideas you have listed that prompted women in the US and the UK to form an autonomous women's liberation.

Almost from the start it became clear that all these young men who thought they were anti establishment and wanted an alternative life style didn't extend that to women. Women were there to cook, roll spliffs, have children and now they could always be replaced by a younger version.

It was so grossly and overtly hypocritical, that it made a lot of women, really, really ANGRY!!

Edited to add: very little to do with universities, although needless to say they swooped in and tried to own it.

Edited

If anyone's read Andrea Dworkin's autobiographical novel "Mercy" she is accurate and funny about the political activist / counter-culture men of the late 1960s and their attitude to women.

And she is furious about their treatment of women in their lives and in their politics.

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 19:41

There was the famous, though maybe not true, example of this.

What is the position of women in the revolution?

On their back.

Which has just made me realise, decades too late Blush, why the very famous and groundbreaking US Women's Liberation paper was called "Off Our Backs"

CaveMum · 28/06/2024 20:10

Re the vitriol of lefty men towards women, it was (obviously) the marvellous JKR who first drew my notice on this topic way back in 2017 when she took at lefty men who were calling Teresa May a whore, a worse.

Link to that original tweet: https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/873207949564497920?s=61&t=haffcpWC9mwmf6zkaHVRIg

x.com

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/873207949564497920?s=61&t=haffcpWC9mwmf6zkaHVRIg

MarieDeGournay · 28/06/2024 20:19

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 19:41

There was the famous, though maybe not true, example of this.

What is the position of women in the revolution?

On their back.

Which has just made me realise, decades too late Blush, why the very famous and groundbreaking US Women's Liberation paper was called "Off Our Backs"

It was Stokely Carmichael, sometime in the 1960s.

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 20:24

It was Stokely Carmichael, sometime in the 1960s.

Well I didn't name as I thought there were later claims that it wasn't true ....

Binglebong · 28/06/2024 20:33

I would like to thank Mr Tennant. The publicity this has got just led directly to a discussion about TRAs and the damage that this whole thing is doing.

That post award interview is interesting. I think it was the interviewer who said that we are all narcissists; pot, meet kettle!

DworkinWasRight · 28/06/2024 20:39

IwantToRetire · 28/06/2024 20:24

It was Stokely Carmichael, sometime in the 1960s.

Well I didn't name as I thought there were later claims that it wasn't true ....

He actually said “prone” which of course is face down.

NeilsExorcistMoonshine · 28/06/2024 20:59

Just placemarking for the latest TARDIS in mouth utterance.
At this point I am half expecting him just to start to kind of malfunction and barking 'exterminate'.
I know the original plan to defeat a Darlek is to head up the stairs- does this still track with Tennantbot2024 or is a map or diagram needed?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/06/2024 21:05

daleks fly these days 😆

David Tennant - Wishes Kemi B would ‘shut up’
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