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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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42
DramaLlamaBangBang · 25/06/2024 20:13

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 19:57

I wouldn't be so sure the Cass review would prevent a wealthy family willing to travel from accessing puberty blockers for a very young child if they felt so inclined. Helen Joyce was as ever very insightful about this. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/07/19/helen_joyce_the_parents_of_trans_children_will_not_be_able_to_move_on.html

HELEN JOYCE: Something you may not have thought of is that there are a lot of people who can't move on from this. And that's the people who have transitioned their own children. So those people are going to be like the Japanese soldiers who were on Pacific islands and didn't know the war was over. They've got to fight forever. This is another reason why this is the worst, worst, worst social contagion that we'll ever have experienced.

A lot of people have done what is the worst thing you could do, which is to harm their children irrevocably, because of it. Those people will have to believe that they did the right thing for the rest of their lives, for their own sanity, and for their own self-respect. So they'll still be fighting, and each one of those people destroys entire organizations and entire friendship groups.

Like, I've lost count of the number of times that somebody has said to me of a specific organization that has been turned upside down on this, "Oh, the deputy director has a trans child." Or, oh, the journalist on that paper who does special investigations has a trans child. Or whatever. The entire organization gets paralyzed by that one person. And it may not even be widely known at that organization that they have a trans child. But it will come out, people will have sort of said quietly, and now you can't talk truth in front of that person, and you know you can't, because what you're saying is: "You as a parent have done a truly, like, a human rights abuse level of awful thing to your own child that can not be fixed."

There are specific individuals who are actively against women's rights here and it is not known why they are, but I happen to know through the back channels, that it is because they've transed their child.

So those people will do anything for the entire rest of their lives to destroy me and people like me because people like me are standing in reproach to them. I don't want to be, I'm not talking directly to them, and I don't spend my time b*tching to them.

But the fact is that just simply by saying we will never accept natal males in women's spaces, well it is their son that we're talking about. And they've told their son that he can get himself sterilized and destroy his own basic sexual function and women will accept him as a woman. And if we don't, there's no way back for them and that child.

They've sold their child a bill of goods that they can't deliver on.

And I'm the one that has to be bullied to try to force me to deliver on it.

So those people are going to be the people who will keep this bloody movement going, I'm sorry to say, because they've everything to lose, and it is a fight to the death as far as they are concerned.

I don't know how anyone could read that and not think it is an utter tragedy for those children

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 20:18

RedRobyn2021 · 25/06/2024 18:08

Not surprising really, I believe one of his children is queer. It's understandable this would be his stance and in his defence he does always make sure everyone knows he owes a lot of what he has to his wife, which he absolutely does. So it's not as though he's telling her to shut up because she's a woman, it's because he doesn't agree with anything she says.

The child in question is still at primary school so surely it's inappropriate for anybody to be giving him a label that suggests anything about his sexuality. If you mean he has long hair, so what? Lots of boys and men have long hair, lots of girls and women have short hair. His parents should be telling him that he is a boy and this can't be changed, because the only thing that makes him a boy is his biology. However, there is no one way to be a boy. He can dress how he likes, develop any personality he likes, all fine. But he will be male to the end of his life and nobody meeting him for the first time will ever be in doubt about this once he's older. It's not kind to let him think otherwise.

IwantToRetire · 25/06/2024 20:25

deeahgwitch · 25/06/2024 19:59

Love this "Okey dokey wokey blokey" @MrsDanversGlidesAgain Smile

Okey dokey wokey blokey

Oh yes! Could we have a thread with this as the title?

Not just to list those in the public eye, but some we have to contend with in our own lives. May have to omit names of last group but some indication of the context.

Donotneedit · 25/06/2024 20:25

Oh give over, kemi B is bloody awful, he’s right she should shut up

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 20:30

Donotneedit · 25/06/2024 20:25

Oh give over, kemi B is bloody awful, he’s right she should shut up

There are plenty of people saying this about Corbyn, Galloway, Farage and all sorts of other politicians with strong divisive opinions. Are you really saying that we should abolish freedom of speech for those we disagree with? What about debating the issues instead, and using facts to support our positions? Simply telling people to shut up does very little to change hearts and minds, quite the contrary, actually.

Teddleshon · 25/06/2024 20:30

@Donotneedit why is it so difficult for you to hear opinions different to your own?

ScrollingLeaves · 25/06/2024 20:32

MrRydersParlourGame · 25/06/2024 16:50

I do worry about the children of parents who very publicly hang their hat and credentials on having a trans child.

The implicit pressure for that child never to desist risks being immense.

Yes. In that speech clip he said “ It’s a family affair. We have skin in the game.”

To say that in a big speech is definitely drawing attention towards the little boy as the focus point for the whole family’s identity.

BoudiccaOfSuburbia · 25/06/2024 20:38

Meadowwild · 25/06/2024 15:01

You are absolutely right. He gives me the creeps. Always has. He always seemed to be performing 'what a nice guy I am'.

This is judgemental but when I saw his wife in that lockdown show they did, I thought, I've got the measure of you: child-faced little blonde, 13 years his junior, way less successful but from good acting aristocracy. He's off filming all over the place while she wrangles their five kids. I've met a few men like him before, and they all play nice but underneath they are utterly self-serving, so they require women to be biddable and pliant.

I am not defending him over this, but I have had occasion to see DT at work, and it being half term he brought them with him, looked after them well all day, gave them a packed lunch he had brought for them, didn’t expect anyone else around to help in any way. (Wasn’t a filming day)

JanesLittleGirl · 25/06/2024 20:45

BackToLurk · 25/06/2024 20:03

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but KB isn’t even in government any more. It’s like he wrote the speech before the GE was called and wasn’t smart enough to write a new one.

Not trying to justify DT in any way (I think that he is a complete crown and anchor) but while KB isn't a MP at the moment, she is still a government minister.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 25/06/2024 20:47

BoudiccaOfSuburbia · 25/06/2024 20:38

I am not defending him over this, but I have had occasion to see DT at work, and it being half term he brought them with him, looked after them well all day, gave them a packed lunch he had brought for them, didn’t expect anyone else around to help in any way. (Wasn’t a filming day)

So? If he was their mum would he be getting this praise?!

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 25/06/2024 20:48

Pancakefam · 25/06/2024 15:25

He sounds like he doesn't like her politics. He even says he doesn't wish her any harm. I'm quite sure white male politicians get told to shut up frequently

"Until we wake up and Kemi Badenoch doesn't exist anymore..." is ABSOLUTELY wishing her harm.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 25/06/2024 20:49

CheltenhamLady · 25/06/2024 15:21

Is the fact that she is black relevant here? I am assuming that whoever was in her role/espoused her views would receive the same ire from him?

Edited

There are a hell of a lot of white women who agree with her, and yet he didn't mention any of them, did he?

DramaLlamaBangBang · 25/06/2024 20:51

Or white men, or men at all. No Nigel Farage, no Rishi Sunak? They can exist as long as they like.

ArabellaScott · 25/06/2024 20:51

ScrollingLeaves · 25/06/2024 20:32

Yes. In that speech clip he said “ It’s a family affair. We have skin in the game.”

To say that in a big speech is definitely drawing attention towards the little boy as the focus point for the whole family’s identity.

Posting publically about your kid is a risky idea as an average person, let alone as a person with a sizeable audience.

Posting deeply personal, politically loaded stuff about your kid, as a recognised person in the public eye, seems reckless in the extreme.

IwantToRetire · 25/06/2024 20:51

What is all this whatabouterry

The issue is a white male with and extensive media platform telling a Black women to shut up AND disappear.

Loathsome unnecessagy and both racist and misogynistic.

Making packed lunches for this children doesn't absolve him.

At a time female polticians are facing abuse and voilence, how could anyone in their right mind think this is the standard of "debate" we need. Lets hope it doesn't come back to bite him.

And also abusing the platform of his work that gives him a link to media amplification to make a personal attack.

If he wants to masturbate his ego in public so he can say what a good daddy he is (what is the gender non conforming word for father?) he could have made a clear and well thought out speech in support for trans rights. I suspect he targetted her because we all know she has made, and would have made without a GE being called now, advances on clarifying the EA.

Can you imagine the ridicule a female star would have got for making that sort of remark at an awards ceremony.

LunaNorth · 25/06/2024 20:54

IwantToRetire · 25/06/2024 20:51

What is all this whatabouterry

The issue is a white male with and extensive media platform telling a Black women to shut up AND disappear.

Loathsome unnecessagy and both racist and misogynistic.

Making packed lunches for this children doesn't absolve him.

At a time female polticians are facing abuse and voilence, how could anyone in their right mind think this is the standard of "debate" we need. Lets hope it doesn't come back to bite him.

And also abusing the platform of his work that gives him a link to media amplification to make a personal attack.

If he wants to masturbate his ego in public so he can say what a good daddy he is (what is the gender non conforming word for father?) he could have made a clear and well thought out speech in support for trans rights. I suspect he targetted her because we all know she has made, and would have made without a GE being called now, advances on clarifying the EA.

Can you imagine the ridicule a female star would have got for making that sort of remark at an awards ceremony.

Edited

Gender non-conforming word for father - spunking parent?

IwantToRetire · 25/06/2024 20:55

Gender non-conforming word for father - spunking parent?

I nearly choked myself I had such a spontaneous both good (humour) and bad (the mind boggles) response.

Thanks!

ActivePeony · 25/06/2024 20:55

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/06/2024 20:10

Kemi's 'blackness' and her lack of conformity with progressive leftist expectations of 'blackness' serve to heighten the antipathy towards her in my view. It is not out and out racism, but some of the roots of that antipathy do lie in the fact that she is race non conforming acording to articles of faith on the Left. Tribal leftists seriously don't like their identified victim classes to step outside of their assigned lane; plus, of course, she is a powerful speaker and orator in defence of what she believes.

Edited

Yes.

LondonLass61 · 25/06/2024 20:57

IGuessIllbetheFirst · 25/06/2024 18:06

Have voted labour all my life and don’t agree with Kemi’s views on other topics - but on this one, I am grateful for just how articulate she is in standing up for women’s rights.

I read a post on here a while back that said once you realise how little the left actually value women - yes, we are just great support humans for the all important men’s rights - then it is a shock and an eye opener, which you can’t then unsee. So true and so sad.

I agree. I'll never be a Tory and could also never be a socialist because of the ones in my family. Also many (male dominated) unions have failed to support women in the past as there is, I believe a perception that men's jobs are more important.

ActivePeony · 25/06/2024 20:57

Donotneedit · 25/06/2024 20:25

Oh give over, kemi B is bloody awful, he’s right she should shut up

🙄

BackToLurk · 25/06/2024 20:59

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 25/06/2024 20:47

So? If he was their mum would he be getting this praise?!

In name, but not with any effective power. I mean, what does he think she’s going to do in little over a week.

Obviously this reply is in the wrong place

cupcaske123 · 25/06/2024 21:02

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 20:30

There are plenty of people saying this about Corbyn, Galloway, Farage and all sorts of other politicians with strong divisive opinions. Are you really saying that we should abolish freedom of speech for those we disagree with? What about debating the issues instead, and using facts to support our positions? Simply telling people to shut up does very little to change hearts and minds, quite the contrary, actually.

Are you really saying that we should abolish freedom of speech

This thread is something else.

Earlier someone was accused of wanting to murder Jo Cox. I'd like a lot of Tories to disappear. I should probably hand myself into the police.

Anyone would think this place was full of Tory shills. Cognitive Goliath JFC

Equanimitas · 25/06/2024 21:03

To be fair, Kemi Badenoch has been a thoroughly incompetent Minister with some very unpleasantly bigoted views on immigration. He's not the only one who's had more than enough of her.

cupcaske123 · 25/06/2024 21:05

Equanimitas · 25/06/2024 21:03

To be fair, Kemi Badenoch has been a thoroughly incompetent Minister with some very unpleasantly bigoted views on immigration. He's not the only one who's had more than enough of her.

Her views on colonisation and institutionalised racism are interesting.

UtilitarianNameChange · 25/06/2024 21:18

cupcaske123 · 25/06/2024 21:05

Her views on colonisation and institutionalised racism are interesting.

What, that continuing to blame historical colonialism for problems in the present day infantilises the non-white people that live, work, vote in and run those former colonial countries and that people who do this are (probably) motivated by the soft bigotry of low expectations?