Because this never happens NHS nurses sue over transgender policy that ‘puts them at risk’.

[LakesideInn]

NHS nurses sue over transgender policy that ‘puts them at risk’.

A fully intact male colleague calling himself Rose was allowed to use the open plan female changing rooms in a hospital. He said he was trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, walked around with genitals viable though underwear and when the nurses complained they were told they needed to get educated and compromise.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/9f995274-a6f8-4da9-8f19-401440ceeb08?shareToken=a33bc4bfddc33558475e4821a9fbf30f

That poster said (upthread) that to say her mother wasn't happy about her father's transition was an understatement.

So, I'm guessing she bloody hated it.

Yeah, but who cares about how she felt of course. It was amusing. 🤐

It's a management decision though, and even back in the early 90s, a fair few NHS managers hadn't any clinical qualifications whatsoever, in fact, many of them were being recruited from the private business and corporate sector from Thatcher's time onwards, because of the changes her government were making in the NHS. It did make it more difficult for us nurses to do our jobs properly even then, as I remember that it seemed that the priority was less and less the needs of the patients, as it had been when I first started nursing in 1979, and more and more about budgets and money, because the more they cut the budgets each year, the bigger the bonuses these managers would get. Plus, the ones with no clinical background didn't care about the needs of patients so much as they had never been frontline workers and seen the suffering first hand, so they had little to no compassion for patients who would suffer as a result of their budget cuts.
Maybe now NHS management is focussing on being "woke" and the genuine needs of patients are being shoved aside for yet another agenda that doesn't benefit them. Of course nurses are being dismissed and shut down and threatened about it if they dare to stand up for themselves, or their patients, particularly females and children. It was ALWAYS like that, long before the Trans agenda. We were always expected to put up and shut up and be good little girls with no needs of our own, happy to be paid a pittance, shoulder onerous responsibility and worked like dogs! Seems to me this is just another stick to beat nurses with now and fair bloody play to them for defending themselves, it's disgusting! That man is a sexual offender in reality and could be dangerous! Shame on the hospital management!

No I did not say that being lesbian is amusing nor was it intended to be implied from what I posted and I did say that no disrespect was intended towards the lesbian or gay community. As indicated the matter only ever arose very occasionally over a forty year period and neither of my parents were fazed or bothered about what other people may think.

The amusing part is how some people add two and two together and come up with 44 over something that was really none of their business. If I shouldn't have been amused I am sorry but I would say that it was better than being angry or upset over the matter.

You make a lot of good points but this bit in particular stood out That man is a sexual offender in reality and could be dangerous! Shame on the hospital management!

Where are the insurers with this? They are letting an alleged sexual harasser continue to be in an enclosed space with unconsenting females where he can harass - or do worse - to women where they may often be alone. Far worse than has happened so far could happen and it would be entirely predictable for him to escalate given the support he's got so far from management.

Shades of Wayne Couzens getting away with flashing - I really think when he got away with that crime despite McDonalds staff reporting it, he felt he could do anything and get away with it and be protected. Not taking swift action enables abusers.

Aside from the human cost - this NHS trust clearly doesn't care about that - wouldn't the hospital be on the hook for huge damages if a serious assault took place, given they had been given reasonable evidence this was a potential risk?

If I shouldn't have been amused I am sorry but I would say that it was better than being angry or upset over the matter.

Well, it's certainly less painful. What exactly would you be so angry or upset about? And who would you be angry with? Why shouldn't people assume that your mother, who had an apparently female partner, was lesbian? Just saying "it's none of their business" doesn't cut it because we live in a social world and similar people like to make contact. If your mother was lesbian wouldn't she be entitled to recognition, company and support from other lesbians? But she wasn't, not really. She was heterosexual but it must have been difficult for other women to recognise her as such.

Was that isolating for her?

When I hear statements like this I think , you still don't get it Wes do you? There is no reasonable compromise as the gender lobby's fundamental position, that Labour used to sign up to, was that TWAW. That wasn't just a neat sounding metaphorical or figurative slogan. For them it is literal and EVERYTHING and every way we organise society must flow from it.

What we need is for our politicians and organisations to reject that and to unashamedly hold onto the value that women are entitled to boundaries around their bodies, safety and dignity, to receive fair treatment.

And what we really, really need is for all our institutions and leaders to recognise that TW are not actually women, and there are times that really matters and we have to acknowledge it to protect women.

Unless you stand up to Stonewall and the gender lobby and say, 'sorry, TW are not literally women and women are entitled to boundaries, safety, dignity and fairness', then women will continue to be damaged and disadvantaged by the TWAW line.

I agree. ^^

'Find a way through'?

So far Mr Starmer's admittedly rather vague responses would appear to be that the chap's dignity is the main concern here, and he just needs a certificate.

Obvs if he has a certificate at home the women's experience will be totes different, the magic will happen, women will happily take their clothes off in front of him and it'll be fine.

Good question! Why indeed?
I was asking a similar question decades ago when I was still nursing and just ended up suspecting they wanted to destroy the NHS by stealth, as if they just closed it down and made all healthcare private overnight, the British people would be so angry, there might be a revolution! There would certainly be protests and even riots and understandably so! So many of us felt totally undervalued from Thatcher's time onwards. It makes me sad and angry that things have not only not improved, but sound to be even worse! We should value nurses, they are so badly needed!

Find a way through by running a horse and carriage all over women's human rights and THEIR dignity perhaps?

If I hear a politician answer a question about women's rights and women's dignity with some blather about respect for men who want to intimidate women I'm going to fucking SCREAM!

This is not some intellectual exercise, this is a specific case where a man has behaved very creepily and abusively. Wes is saying there needs to be a 'way through' where that specific creepy bloke gets dignity, respect and privilege over women, which I note is ALREADY FUCKING HAPPENING so what's the way through then Wes? Gaslight the women into knowing they're inferior and are simply subhuman tools for men to use and abuse as they see fit?

It's not fucking rocket science, I'm sure there's another room somewhere in the hospital one male bodied person could use. RIGHT NOW.

Let's not forget female nurses are currently forced to go to work every day knowing any old man can be in an enclosed changing room and they have absolutely no dignity or privacy. And HR will back the man. And their other choice is to use the disabled toilet, but presumably only if it's free.

I hope those nurses record every encounter with that man from now on. At this rate we're all going to have to wear bodycams when we go out or any crime against us will be reframed as us being big old meanies.

I'm not autistic nor ND at all and I would feel exactly the same way as you. Sex is biologically determined at conception and it goes DNA deep. It's impossible to change it and that's just a fact. I feel for those suffering gender dysphoria but that does not mean I am going to stop believing facts, biological or otherwise. I'm not willing to make a liar of myself and neither are you! Fair play to us! No one individual nor legal system nor State has the right to demand anyone makes liars of themselves which is what the Trans agenda is doing!

What I'd really like to do is crowdfund for these nurses to be paid to be a private nursing service for a couple of years. So women around the country will pay their salaries and they can be a resource for vulnerable female patients to use in their homes, rather than having to stay in hospital, ensuring single sex care. So they can all quit immediately and start working in a job that respects them.

Ok there are a few details that need sorting, but still - if only I were rich.

I'm also sick of the ' you need education' line.

Why don't you go and education yourself on male sexual offending behaviour? Why don't you go educate yourselves on women's experiences of male harassment and intimidation?

Why don't you go educate yourselves of women's experiences of male violence and the impact of this?
Why don't you go educate yourselves on male behaviours of control and coercion of women?

Why don't you go educate yourselves on institutional and societal misogyny? Why don't you go educate yourselves on women's rights to bodily autonomy? Why don't you go educate yourselves on the history of women's rights on all of this?
Why don't you go educate yourselves on basic feminism?

You would think, but IME NHS managements just cover up and at best, victims get some comp but no real accountability is taken unless it's extreme like Beverly Allet or Lucy Letby or Harold Shipman. I can think of a couple of examples of this from back when I was a student nurse, decades ago but it'd go a bit too off topic. Sadly, it would take a rape or a murder by one of these dangerous men for legal action to be taken I suspect. I hope and pray to God I'm wrong but NHS management is very powerful and we all know what they say about power corrupting! I'm old and a lot more cynical these days but for valid reasons. We don't live a just world!

But they can't do that! Recording would 100% put them in the wrong and they can't afford that.

With even halfway decent legal representation the nurses should win this case. Besides being a much needed victory for these nurses, the NHS may then start to reconsider its maddest policies. My only worry is that the nurses are not crowdfunding for the legal experts who have already won GC employment cases (this case would be one kick straight to the back of the net for them!) instead they're supported by a Christian group and I don't know how much expertise and experience their legal team will have in this area.

But, fingers crossed for the nurses. Once it gets to the tribunal it should be an easy win.

Hopefully 'Legal Feminist' or others with experience in this field might have already got in touch and offered advice.

Yes, when they say "....find a way through" it is implied that there is no intention to re-assess or to re-examine anything, but to maintain the same policy position and attempt to re-frame the matter however many times is necessary until it disappears and people are 're-assured'.

None of my family were jumping for joy over it but it was something that we had no control over. Having numerous arguments over the matter didn't help either. Time is a great healer.

AmaryllisNightAndDay My parents did become friendly with an apparently lesbian couple for a brief period but eventually lost contact. They were not told that my parents were not a lesbian couple but presumably they worked it out for themselves.

none of my family were jumping for joy over it but it was something that we had no control over. Having numerous arguments over the matter didn't help either. Time is a great healer.

Do you think that everyone in the family thinks that or is it just that they're agreeing to things now?

FairCop have posted this on Twitter:

https://x.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1808091265013047798

'This appeared on a Darlington Nurses changing station over the weekend. The nurses have no choice but to joyfully accept the presence of the Female Penis.
@CDDFTNHS Thanks to @CConcern for the story.'

The photo attached to the tweet shows a door for Female Staff Changing with a handmade rainbow NHS sign sellotaped to the door stating 'This is an inclusive changing space’ and the handmade sign has 'Do not remove this sign' printed at the top and bottom of the A4 paper.

Could they all go off sick? Refuse to change at work? Boycott the changing room?

It's outrageous.

Bloody hell, this 'inclusive' bullcrap has really got to be ended, now, and very bluntly. Being 'kind' to rhino hide thick skin does nothing.

Slowly, very clearly: It is not inclusive if you have had to throw women out of a female space to shove males in so they can express their inner selves, and told the females they have no rights and he has all the rights.

That is just male supremacism. Bloody own it. And stop pretending that males with all their privileges and male dominance ever, at any time, stop being male.

THIS

It is really outrageous. What bullying. Imposing a male on those women in their changing room is sexual harassment and abuse.

The other thing is that the sign says ‘Female Staff’ above the ‘Inclusive’ rainbow sign.

Who wants an NHS who are so scientifically and linguistically ignorant that they are not embarrassed to put those contradictory words together.