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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Because this never happens NHS nurses sue over transgender policy that ‘puts them at risk’.

173 replies

LakesideInn · 24/06/2024 13:14

NHS nurses sue over transgender policy that ‘puts them at risk’.

A fully intact male colleague calling himself Rose was allowed to use the open plan female changing rooms in a hospital. He said he was trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, walked around with genitals viable though underwear and when the nurses complained they were told they needed to get educated and compromise.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/9f995274-a6f8-4da9-8f19-401440ceeb08?shareToken=a33bc4bfddc33558475e4821a9fbf30f

OP posts:
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happydappy2 · 24/06/2024 13:22

Ludicrous that they have to do this but good for them

Toseland · 24/06/2024 13:22

Why is he not being charged with indecent exposure?! Unbelievable.

Hoppinggreen · 24/06/2024 13:30

Toseland · 24/06/2024 13:22

Why is he not being charged with indecent exposure?! Unbelievable.

Because she is getting changed in a ladies changing room and she is a lady
Apparently

CranfordScones · 24/06/2024 13:54

Can we take a moment to appreciate that this is happening in a medical setting? Where staff whose training has been informed by science can't tell the difference between facts and ideology.

Bindelj · 25/06/2024 06:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LakesideInn · 25/06/2024 10:03

Labour just seem to be all over the place with what they will or won’t do. I fear rolling back of Cass and it’s only going to be actions like the one of these brave nurses that start to make a difference in workplaces, schools, hospitals, prisons. As ever the process is the punishment - people will undergo huge stress and personal sacrifice to try and establish some sanity.

Why isn’t it more difficult for the men who want to take over spaces to try and do so? Why aren’t we making them take their case to court so they can argue in plain sight that they want access to women’s spaces and have to justify exactly why that is.

OP posts:
Motorina · 25/06/2024 10:12

Hoppinggreen · 24/06/2024 13:30

Because she is getting changed in a ladies changing room and she is a lady
Apparently

I know, right? Fucking bigots, staring at her lady penis.

Twoshoesnewshoes · 25/06/2024 10:15

Wishing them lots of luck, I think they’re very brave doing this in the NHS. Really admire them.

sweetsardineface · 25/06/2024 10:31

I’d love to support them so if anyone knows about a gardening fund, please let us know.

Imnobody4 · 25/06/2024 10:57

Wes Streeting has responded to tweet from Janice Turner.

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1805297323594924494?t=v19zCz2jbBUx4pF7HIoggg&s=19

I support the nurses and I’m horrified that they’ve had to resort to legal action. We’ve got to find a better way through this and I’d be happy to meet them. We’ve got to find a way through that treats trans people with respect and respects women’s safe spaces.

x.com

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1805297323594924494?s=19&t=v19zCz2jbBUx4pF7HIoggg

arethereanyleftatall · 25/06/2024 11:00

That's easy @Imnobody4
Third spaces.

PrincessCordelia · 25/06/2024 11:03

LakesideInn · 25/06/2024 10:03

Labour just seem to be all over the place with what they will or won’t do. I fear rolling back of Cass and it’s only going to be actions like the one of these brave nurses that start to make a difference in workplaces, schools, hospitals, prisons. As ever the process is the punishment - people will undergo huge stress and personal sacrifice to try and establish some sanity.

Why isn’t it more difficult for the men who want to take over spaces to try and do so? Why aren’t we making them take their case to court so they can argue in plain sight that they want access to women’s spaces and have to justify exactly why that is.

Open plan changing areas! They need to switch to private cubicles asap!

OvaHere · 25/06/2024 11:05

Imnobody4 · 25/06/2024 10:57

Wes Streeting has responded to tweet from Janice Turner.

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1805297323594924494?t=v19zCz2jbBUx4pF7HIoggg&s=19

I support the nurses and I’m horrified that they’ve had to resort to legal action. We’ve got to find a better way through this and I’d be happy to meet them. We’ve got to find a way through that treats trans people with respect and respects women’s safe spaces.

LMAO that Streeting might be under the impression this is the first case of this kind (he's not of course, he knows perfectly well).

So Wes do you think this man flashing his genitals in the women's changing room is trans or not? Do you think he should be in there? Will Labour be handing out lady certificates to more men like this?

OvaHere · 25/06/2024 11:08

PrincessCordelia · 25/06/2024 11:03

Open plan changing areas! They need to switch to private cubicles asap!

There often isn't the space for enough cubicles for everyone. Better and cheaper option is to never let men in there.

Beowulfa · 25/06/2024 11:10

Streeting is saying "safe spaces". Why won't any journalists do their fucking job and pull them up on this?

myotherdogisadonkey · 25/06/2024 11:17

Why is no one in the media questioning why this dodgy git is allowed near patients and staff, trans or not bloody trans . Get him ta 🤬!!!!

Igmum · 25/06/2024 13:12

Good for those nurses. Come on NHS, if anyone knows Biology you should. Let's get back to single sex spaces.

ScrollingLeaves · 25/06/2024 13:26

LakesideInn · 24/06/2024 13:14

NHS nurses sue over transgender policy that ‘puts them at risk’.

A fully intact male colleague calling himself Rose was allowed to use the open plan female changing rooms in a hospital. He said he was trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, walked around with genitals viable though underwear and when the nurses complained they were told they needed to get educated and compromise.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/9f995274-a6f8-4da9-8f19-401440ceeb08?shareToken=a33bc4bfddc33558475e4821a9fbf30f

The nurses alleged that the trust’s policies permitted any member of staff to “identify” in the opposite gender and to access single-sex changing rooms, lavatories and showers

This is where the Equality Act single sex exceptions do not work. The Trust must have been told they did not exist, and now believe that is right.

Can the law protect individuals rights to be allowed single sex, against the policies of Trusts etc?

Some of the Equality Act is unclear too. Like the GRA.

Making something normal an ‘exception’ that may well have to be fought for, and bought at a high price through law, is bound to cause trouble.

Twoshoesnewshoes · 25/06/2024 13:28

The trust I work for, RDUH, also has the same policy, that staff who identify as transgender can use whichever toilet and changing facility that they feel comfortable in.

Forester1 · 25/06/2024 13:39

Any gardening required?

Janie143 · 25/06/2024 13:53

I have every sympathy for the nurses and hope they win their case
However that wont help the adult human females patients who require a same sex HCP and Rose rocks up

ScrollingLeaves · 25/06/2024 13:53

LakesideInn · 24/06/2024 13:14

NHS nurses sue over transgender policy that ‘puts them at risk’.

A fully intact male colleague calling himself Rose was allowed to use the open plan female changing rooms in a hospital. He said he was trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, walked around with genitals viable though underwear and when the nurses complained they were told they needed to get educated and compromise.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/9f995274-a6f8-4da9-8f19-401440ceeb08?shareToken=a33bc4bfddc33558475e4821a9fbf30f

Do people remember this case
in 2022 involving Sheffield NHS Foundation Hospital Teaching Trust? A transwoman sued the trust for Gender Reassignment Discrimination and won.

There was no report that the man who wanted to be a woman had a GRC.

Some legal posters here couldn’t understand why the transwoman had won because the comparator ought to have been other men.

In fact the comparator was that other women would not have been asked if they wore underwear at work. ( He was a man in a female’s changing room who had taken off his pants.)

So the way the Equality Act balances rights is not clear in practice. The existence of sex based exceptions is by no means clear.

Daily Mail
https://www.thehrdirector.com/legal-updates/legal-updates-2022/transgender-nhs-worker-wins-gender-reassignment-discrimination-claim-concern-among-staff-woman-naked-waist-changing-room/

The HR Director
In the case of V v Sheffield Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and others the Claimant is a transgender woman. She has a law degree, obtained as a mature student. The Claimant’s identity cannot be revealed for legal reasons. The Claimant applied for a full-time role as a Catering Assistant at the Northern General Hospital.

In the case of V v Sheffield Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and others the Claimant is a transgender woman. She has a law degree, obtained as a mature student. The Claimant’s identity cannot be revealed for legal reasons. The Claimant applied for a full-time role as a Catering Assistant at the Northern General Hospital.

The trust – which gives staff equality and diversity training – encouraged workers to be respectful to her, however soon after joining she suffered abuse. The transgender woman was asked by her manager whether she wore underwear at work or ‘if she wore it in general’.

The questioning came because there had been ‘concern’ among staff that the transgender woman was ‘naked from the waist down’ in the communal changing room and she had made a ‘light-hearted’ comment about being so hot at work she took her pants off.

Concluding, Employment Judge Sarah-Jane Davies ruled a female manager quizzed her because she is transgender. Judge Davies said: ‘A concern about the woman’s state of undress in the changing rooms was likely to be connected with the fact that she is a transgender woman.

‘This was a communal changing room with a shower cubicle. It did not seem to the Tribunal likely that there would have been a concern about a cisgender woman in a state of undress while changing in such a changing room.

‘The Tribunal therefore concluded that [the manager] asked the questions because of a concern that the woman as a transgender woman might be in a state of undress in the female changing room.

The employee won a claim of gender reassignment discrimination related to the underwear questions.
https://www.thehrdirector.com/legal-updates/legal-updates-2022/transgender-nhs-worker-wins-gender-reassignment-discrimination-claim-concern-among-staff-woman-naked-waist-changing-room/

Transgender NHS worker wins gender reassignment discrimination claim after 'concern' among staff that the woman was 'naked from the waist down' in the changing room | theHRD

In the case of V v Sheffield Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and others the Claimant is a transgender woman. She has a law degree, obtained as a mature student. The Claimant’s identity cannot be revealed for legal reasons. The Claimant applied...

https://www.thehrdirector.com/legal-updates/legal-updates-2022/transgender-nhs-worker-wins-gender-reassignment-discrimination-claim-concern-among-staff-woman-naked-waist-changing-room/

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 25/06/2024 16:56

CranfordScones · 24/06/2024 13:54

Can we take a moment to appreciate that this is happening in a medical setting? Where staff whose training has been informed by science can't tell the difference between facts and ideology.

Edited

You think that medical staff decide these things? They do not.

Shortshriftandlethal · 26/06/2024 16:22

I see now this is not the right thread...but couldn't find the original " It will never happen"