JKR in The Times. Labour have dismissed women like me

[impossibletoday]

https://www.thetimes.com/article/860b9b92-9b0d-4321-ba97-6a18b367bdf4?shareToken=fc3cf82fe46fc9169528ed540751fc27

The tories are so shit that JKR is now the official opposition.

I love her and think she’s absolutely amazing. We’re so lucky to have someone so eloquent and talented and knowledgeable on our side.

Yes. And it's a measure of how untrustworthy he comes across that we all think that might happen. However I'm sure she would publicise everything he said. Get it all out there, and make it transparent.

She appears to be extremely considered about exactly what she says and when she says it. She has an exceptional sixth sense for impact.

So her writing that article, every word, and the exact timing would, to me, be strategic.

So I bet she would genuinely like to talk to Starmer to make him understand. It's so characteristic of this bloody issue, that we all think if only we said this or this, everything else would fall into place.

Unfortunately, it's equally characteristic that people still carry on in this insane way. I think a PP hit the nail on the head up thread by saying that the TRA faction in the Labour Party must hold tremendous power.

Everybody else can see the writing on the wall.

There's a reason why he can't. Or won't.

The next few days are really going to be bloody interesting.

Sadly, when Starmer talks about the toxic debate I believe that he does believe GC people are the nasty ones.

I terms of the bell curve you have:

TRA/MRA

 Allies - be kind

       Not interested
       Interested but not concerned &
       Duh. Humans can't change sex

 Pre-peaked and interested

GC.

Starmer & his wife graduated in the 1980's and became lawyers with Mrs S later retraining in occupational therapy & working in a north London hospital. They have supported progressive causes all their adult lives. The people they surround themselves with are progressive and they no doubt supported friends in winning rights for gay people to live as they choose. Many of us on these boards have held similar views.

But we don't live in a bubble and being allies ended [for me] when I saw how damaging TRAs demanding their rights was for women. I just don't think the Starmers are there yet. And cautious and lawyerly as he is, he might be able to acknowledge the biology, but he can't admit -and perhaps can't see - the harm the trans rights movement can do. He wants JKR & Rosie Duffield to pipe down and stop making this so difficult.

When he says we should detoxify the debate, I'm afraid he means GC women.

The tories are so shit that JKR is now the official opposition.

Exactly what I think 😄

I know lots of people say this issue is still fairly niche. And be that as it may. It's still the issue that can make him look unbelievably awful. Really easily.

GPS tracking legislation may be seen as niche; a politician that made decisions about that legislation based on a consideration that the earth is or may be flat would be in a similar position to Starmer right now.

How on earth have the kind of angry men who turn up at feminist meetings and shout abuse/threats, while also wearing shirts & holding signs with abusive slogans, managed to convince Kier Starmer et al that they are oppressed and it’s the feminists who are the ones who are being unkind to them?

I mean are the men who’ve physically attacked women at meetings also being oppressed in some way because the nasty TERF hurt their fists with her evil witch’s face?

Does Kier not have eyes in his bloody head? Can he not see what’s happening to women who speak up in public life? Is he wearing actual, in addition to ideological, blinkers?

This bothers me. As it bothers me when I see any barrister / solicitor going along with this shite. Those of us who've qualified into the bar or as a solicitor aren't total dim wits. I don't get anyone who's qualified going along with gender ideology.

Even if he has seen any footage or reporting of this (massive "if"), I bet he dismisses it as fake news, fake video and lies by the "right wing media".

If you start from a position that GC people are evil terfs though, do you think at some level the terfs deserve it?

I'm not saying it's right, just trying to understand why. We have plenty of posters come to these boards to tell us off and David Tennant's T shirt in the past few days shows us how sanctimonious some allies can be.

What I've come to is that KS isn't sitting on the fence in an attempt to be fair. He isn't frightened of the consequences of apologising to RD. He isn't even being a cautious lawyer. He thinks RD, JKR and all those of us who are GC are a tiresome minority who need to be kept away from proper politics and let him get on with it.

She is marvellous.

Absolutely nailed it.

👏👏👏

I see what you mean: a lot of men (and women) think we’re perversely refusing to be kind and therefore 'bad' women shouldn’t be surprised by receiving bad treatment. It’s another version of ‘she probably deserved it'.

Um, Starmer won't be taking his lead from activists in balaclavas, but people like Judge McCloud and Jolyon Maugham, ex KC, Iain Anderson, Linda Riley, etc.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12297445/EDEN-CONFIDENTIAL-Company-director-met-Keir-Starmer-went-bust-day.html

It surprises me too because I always thought that solicitors and barristers were trained in logical thinking and looking at issues dispassionately when necessary.

What I've come to is that KS isn't sitting on the fence in an attempt to be fair. He isn't frightened of the consequences of apologising to RD. He isn't even being a cautious lawyer. He thinks RD, JKR and all those of us who are GC are a tiresome minority who need to be kept away from proper politics and let him get on with it.

Absolutely this. That is just how he comes across.

None of whom are seemingly that bright!

(I was told that the ex-QC, now KC, process is more about paying to get it than being an amazing barrister. Stands to reason!)

It's a disgrace to the legal profession, frankly. (Though the SRA / Law Society are pretty captured, to my shame. My barrister friend says she thinks the Bar Council may be. It's fucking embarrassing as a solicitor.)

The Equal Treatment Bench Book has not helped, afaik.

I feel we need to get a hashtag of some sort trending to see if we can make a JKR/KS meeting happen.

There is a final RS/KS head to head debate on the BBC on 26 June. Mishal Husain hosting, maybe we need to hit her up for the questions….

Or ask Mishal to let JKR co-host 🤔😬

sadly only likely to happen in my imagination

Just thought I'd share. He says something like he'll be on Facebook so thought he would also benefit from being on mumsnet.

https://twitter.com/MandyClareTERF/status/1804570461822767154?t=mRVRosC6BywvCgAuik4WeA&s=19

Pair of of Labour 🤡🤡 ⁦@danpricelab⁩ ⁦@GoAndrCoop⁩ - Lab PCC and Lab candidate in Mid Cheshire unskilfully avoiding questions about women’s rights and child safeguarding whilst posturing as inclusive at #WinsfordPride today #OverTheRainbow 🤡🤡🤡

Um, Starmer won't be taking his lead from activists in balaclavas, but people like Judge McCloud and Jolyon Maugham, ex KC, Iain Anderson, Linda Riley, etc.

And that's the problem, isn't it? Until now, I have believed, or have chosen to believe that KS was really gender critical - because how can an intelligent man not be - but was keeping quiet so as not to upset the activists on the left.

Since his appearance on Question Time, I've realised that I was probably wrong and that he actually sits with the allies.

And that is making me question my vote. I had reached a settled decision to vote labour for better public services and keep pushing for women's rights, but I'm not so sure I want to give them that mandate. Fuck.

Liked this response - perhaps this is why they think we're toxic. Clever, witty incisive more like.

twitter.com/Psychgirl211/status/1804812452237861213?t=1e12vEhgxbTfneNSUFtGKw&s=19

Arf! 😄

I've never thought KS was gender critical nor that he cared one iota about women and women's rights.

He has had the same access to reports of what was happening as the rest of us, Judicial Reviews against the Ministry of Justice regarding TW in the female prison estate, the Karen White debacle, NOT ONCE as Leader of the Opposition did he stand up and question the Tories about this, not once did he criticise them, not once has he said Yes, there appear to be issues with the interpretation and implementation of the GRA and EqA and this is detrimental to women it needs to be sorted out and clarified.

And the same for all the issues in schools, the NHS, women's meetings threatened, women being abused, women having to go to Court, women losing employment, not a word.

He accepted the Cass Review very grudgingly.

All along his attitude has been that he is proud of the GRA and EqA.

He was full on supportive of Self-id, his infamous little video for Pink News he only backed off self-id when it all went tits up in Scotland.

Every time women's rights are mentioned KS talks about the toxic debate, (never puts the blame for the toxicity where it should be) and then goes all lip quivery and teary-eyed about trans.

He is only making noises now because dear old Tony has spoken and he is realising that actually the public do care about the issue, it may not be at the top of the agenda of the public but it is there.

Watching Mandy Clare’s video was so enraging - those men were so dismissive and condescending towards her. Treating her like she was David Icke rather than a woman’s rights & child safety campaigner. Disgusting!

Maybe women need to start throwing soup at Stonehenge or something to get politicians to take us seriously 😏

It's worth watching the video this refers to:

x.com/mandyclareterf/status/1804570461822767154?s=46&t=88gZvdSnTk70X8b2ZUPZtA

Summed up - stop making a fuss about things we leftie men don't think matter and put your efforts into doing things we determine to be worthy.