WOMAN'S HOUR TODAY!

[heldinadream]

Today's WH is as follows - Woman's Hour Election Debate. In a special extended 90 minute programme, Nuala McGovern hosts the Woman's Hour Election Debate. Senior women from the main political parties of Great Britain outline their priorities for women and answer your questions. Taking part are: Scottish National Party spokesperson for Consular Affairs and International Engagement Hannah Bardell; Reform UK candidate Maria Bowtell; Green Party spokesperson for Housing and Communities Ellie Chowns; Deputy Leader of the Liberal Democrats Daisy Cooper; Conservative Minister of State for Disabled People, Health and Work Mims Davies; Labour Party Chair and Shadow Secretary for Women and Equalities Anneliese Dodds, and Plaid Cymru’s Westminster Leader Liz Saville Roberts.

Questions via text 84844 or WhatsApp - 03700100444

I intend to send something like the following - Given that you are all designated senior women politicians, speaking as such on Woman's Hour, can we possibly decide an answer to the question - What is a woman?

Send in yours!

Brianna was murdered by two extremely disturbed teenagers. The detailed reporting of the trial made it clear that they had drawn up a list of potential victims. Brianna was not the first to be targeted. We don't know why the other names were on the list. Brianna was chosen after their first murder attempt failed because the female murderer was sure she could get Brianna to come to the park alone. Brianna had recently changed schools and had hardly any friends. The messages that went between the two murderers seem to show that the male was keen to kill a trans person, but the female didn't seem to be motivated by that specifically. Brianna was dreadfully unlucky. If the first attempt had succeeded, they would probably have been caught earlier and Brianna would never have known about being on the list. It's far too simple to say this was a targeted transphobic murder.

I just cannot understand why none of the major political parties are willing to raise their heads above the parapet on this one. Women (actual biological ones!) make up 50% of the electorate so surely they should be invested in representing us and actually able to define what we are.

I absolutely believe in free speech and equal rights for everyone but men cannot become women and I am utterly sick of the cowardice and kowtowing to the TQ+ brigade that The current political parties are entertaining. Shame on them all.

Sex is observed. Not assigned.

If you can’t get that right you shouldn’t even be commenting.

Completely agree! Well said.

I am a left-leaning politically homeless voter.

Due to recent polls suggesting that Reform could be serious contenders, I thought I should probably read their manifesto.

I was horrified to find myself agreeing with the first few sections, although I was sceptical about how the figures would stack up. I was genuinely wondering whether they were as bad as I'd assumed and thought they might be worth considering.

Biological sex and school education, great. Clear and unequivocal. And for me, I'm almost a single issue voter.

Almost.

I got to the section on policing and started to feel uncomfortable. As soon as I reached the part about leaving the European Court of Human Rights, I was out. But I kept reading, and if it hadn't already been confirmed, the dog whistling xenophobia of their immigration policies proved my preconceptions of Reform were right. Absolutely fucking awful.

But as @GC5 says, a vote for Reform won't be interpreted as voting for women's rights. It will be interpreted as support for far right, anti-immigration ideology and it will encourage others to move in that direction.

The problem is that no one gives a shit about spoiled votes either. There was a very knowledgeable poster on another thread who's been at the count in previous elections. Parties don't see what's written and don't particularly care. No one is going to give a shiny shit about spoiled votes.

I had been wondering whether I could hold my nose and vote Tory - but I've seen the recent consultation to replace disability benefits with vouchers, and honestly they can fuck right off. My DM has cerebral palsy, and both my DC are autistic and require a LOT of support, one with particularly high needs who will never live independently. Life is bloody hard financially trying to support three disabled people and also work, but the Tories think we're the low-hanging fruit they can pick on to cut costs, rather than squeezing their wealthy chums.

That means a no to Conservative, no to Reform. Obviously no to Lib Dems and Greens because of women's rights.

So, back to voting Labour?? But can they actually be trusted on women's rights? I don't think they can?

Spoiled vote? Seems pretty pointless as no one will care.

What the actual hell do left leaning voters who care about this issue do?!

Has Kier Starmer, or any other Labour politician, ever been within range of an interviewer or member of the public asking them about autogynephilia? That particular condition never seems to feature in these political discussions and I think it really needs to. If politicians are too prudish or nervous to consider AGP as relevant to this discussion they shouldn't be able to escape dealing with the reality of the subject via disingenuous discussions of marginalised and disadvantaged people.

*That means a no to Conservative, no to Reform. Obviously no to Lib Dems and Greens because of women's rights.

So, back to voting Labour?? But can they actually be trusted on women's rights? I don't think they can?

Spoiled vote? Seems pretty pointless as no one will care.

What the actual hell do left leaning voters who care about this issue do?*

Thank you for describing so clearly my POV.

For me a Labour vote won't achieve much so I think I can vote knowing it won't impact the outcome. What about your area?

But by the same token won't a vote for Labour be taken as an endorsement of their position on gender?

After all the effort we went to try to move the Labour Party's position.

I understand that this is an impossible election.

@Livinghappy - in my area it seems to be between Conservative and Lib Dem, I don't think Labour has much of a chance. The Lib Dem guy seems to be gaining traction -those in the know are suggesting there's a very good possibility he'll get the seat. We've been Tory here for about 25 years so it will be a huge coup.

The only other thing is that I've seen a surge in local pro-Reform posts recently. The local boards are full of Reform supporters so they might split the right wing vote.

The 2024 boundary changes make it a bit more complicated to predict as we're now in a new constituency. At the last election Lib Dems and Labour were pretty much the same but now the tactical voting apps are telling people to vote Lib Dem to unseat the Conservative.

So I'm guessing I could probably vote Labour and not actually have any impact? But the Conservative MP had 58% of the votes at the last election so any change will represent an enormous swing. It's not inconceivable that Labour could do it, but I doubt it.

I know it's (probably) a bit pointless really but I still want to feel that I represented my views in the right way. Voting in the election is really important to me, even if it's just to add my number to show support.

Yes, that's exactly my dilemma in a nutshell.

Even if the Labour candidate in my area doesn't win, I don't want to be seen to be endorsing their policies on gender. Unlike the spoiled votes data, I do think they will look at the number of votes cast for Labour, even in constituencies they didn't win.

But by the same token won't a vote for Labour be taken as an endorsement of their position on gender?

Yes, it absolutely will! That’s a big part of why I won’t vote Labour. I was a Green voter but they’ve lost the plot totally sadly. LibDems are funded and blinded by gender crap. So, I’ll vote Tory. Not because I want to but because if Labour lose, that will put an end to this ‘a woman is anyone who says they’re one’ insulting rubbish.

Watch the other parties change their policies once women put their foot down. Sadly, there’s too much tribalism and some people will vote Labour, like turkeys voting for Xmas. Labour will then say that that proves all the Tory stuff about biological sex was something nobody was interested in, and will be emboldened to bring in self ID and further erode women’s rights.

We are in such a bind. If we threaten to withdraw our votes from labour and don't see it through, we will get nothing from them going forward.

I don’t think so. Unlike Reform, the Labour Party is not synonymous with a particular issue, and even if it was, I don’t think that their position on sex/gender would be it.

I disagree. The Tories have made a big thing about biological sex whereas Labour have previously struggled to define a woman or actively attacked women (dinosaurs hoarding their rights anyone?). A vote for Labour sends the message that no-one really cares about biological sex. While Labour haven’t headlined their gender policy, they’ll automatically be seen to mirror the Tories’ policies, so by the very fact the Tories have put it out there, it’s an issue for Labour too and will be considered when they look at the votes.

I agree the labour party is not a one issue party in the same way that reform are. But the labour party itself will know they can call our bluff when it comes to the gender issue, despite what many GC women have said.

OP back! Had stuff to do. I listened, but only to the first question bit. Agree with so many of you - women, on Woman's Hour, asked about women - trans trans trans. What an absolute dystopian nightmare we're in.

On the voting question, I've been giving it some thought. I'm 69 this year and I've voted in every general, local, and EU election that has ever crossed my path, plus obviously the referendum. I've encouraged other people to vote and occasionally berated them for not voting. I take it very seriously.

So here's where I've got to with it.
Tory or Reform - over my dead body.
Labour, Lib Dem or Green - have voted all of these in the past, but not this time.
Independent- there is one here, cannot find out a single thing about him. And no contact details. So useless.
No POW here. Nothing else.
Not vote - would hate that.
Spoil the paper - not convinced by this option.

Soooo - drum roll - I am, I actually am, I'm pretty sure I am, going to vote for my local Monster Raving Loony candidate - who actually mentions the women issue on his website! A protest vote obviously. The only course of action that I can stomach. OMG! 🤪😱
Thoughts?

I would do the same, @heldinadream, but I don't have a Monster Raving Looney candidate or Count Binface. Our one Independent candidate thinks the most important issue of the election is the rights of unborn people.

My vote counts for nothing here, frankly. Our MP has an enormous majority (Labour) and I expect it to go up this time.

I've always voted left/centre left but I've decided to vote Conservative. Not because I want them to win, which lets face it is very very unlikely, but to try and limit the Labour majority so Labour can be reigned in. I'm in a Tory seat that could go to Labour.
I'm tactical voting but not in the way that many people are to get the Torys out 😂

Well I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd find myself commiserating with someone because there's no Monster Raving Loony standing in their constituency, but we do live in strange times.
You are well scuppered if you don't even have that choice.

I'm delighted to find I have a SDP candidate. Left leaning on many issues (renationalisation of railways!) but know what a woman is.

I don't have a Monster Raving Loony Candidate or an Independent either. The only other option I have is the Heritage Party? Never heard of them but will have to check out what they have to say.

I've just discovered that we have someone for the Christian People's Alliance standing in our area - as well as the Greens, Lib Dems, Tories, Labour, and Reform.

Just had a look at the Christian People's Alliance manifesto - they're strong on gender and biology, as you'd expected, but the rest of their policies...... 😳

Not quite crackers enough to be a good protest vote like the Monster Raving Loony Party, just bigoted and narrow-minded in general. Reform-Lite with a bit more god-fearing analogies and worship chucked in.

Fucks sake. It's almost as if no one wants our vote 😅

I don't understand why the SDP are not breaking through into public consciousness.
They seem to offer what a lot of people are looking for.

Ha! Christian People's Alliance by any chance?!

Well, in case anyone is interested the Heritage party have quite a long and detailed manifesto which is very clear on realities of biological sex and upholding women's spaces. I like what they have to say about animal welfare.

However, it appears that they are climate change deniers, want the UK to leave international treaties and organisations, and are Anti-abortion.

They have an air of wanting to take Britain back to the 1950s - I guess the clue is in the name.

Back to square one for me 😫