WOMAN'S HOUR TODAY!

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Today's WH is as follows - Woman's Hour Election Debate. In a special extended 90 minute programme, Nuala McGovern hosts the Woman's Hour Election Debate. Senior women from the main political parties of Great Britain outline their priorities for women and answer your questions. Taking part are: Scottish National Party spokesperson for Consular Affairs and International Engagement Hannah Bardell; Reform UK candidate Maria Bowtell; Green Party spokesperson for Housing and Communities Ellie Chowns; Deputy Leader of the Liberal Democrats Daisy Cooper; Conservative Minister of State for Disabled People, Health and Work Mims Davies; Labour Party Chair and Shadow Secretary for Women and Equalities Anneliese Dodds, and Plaid Cymru’s Westminster Leader Liz Saville Roberts.

Questions via text 84844 or WhatsApp - 03700100444

I intend to send something like the following - Given that you are all designated senior women politicians, speaking as such on Woman's Hour, can we possibly decide an answer to the question - What is a woman?

Send in yours!

Read my post rebutting this.

Labour might chuck a handful of change they found down the back of the sofa at women's refuge services, but their idea of "woman" will include men. We've seen this already in Scotland from the SNP.

ETA: Oops, I already replied to that post. Long day.

ETAA: No I didn't, that was MalagaNights I replied to earlier. Long day...

That's the SNP not Labour, @EvenMyWashingMachineCommittedSuicide .

Labour want to enact self-id, same as SNP. If you think Labour won't make funding of women's services conditional upon them being trans male-inclusive like the SNP have done, you're deluded.

Until recently, Stonewall were fighting to get the single-sex exemptions taken out of the Equality Act. They'll restart that campaign under a Labour govt and then we won't even be able to fund our own single-sex services.

Yes, as I said in another thread, you only have to see what Labour controlled councils do

Why this faith in what the Conservatives will do for women, @EvenMyWashingMachineCommittedSuicide? It's not as if they've demonstrated any will or commitment in that direction over the last 14 years. What do you imagine is going to change now? After all, their manifesto involves benefit cuts which by their nature will hurt women more than men.

I'm sorely tempted to vote ADF as a protest vote in my safe Labour seat.

I disagree profoundly with them on immigration but I agree strongly with their policies to protect our fisheries and marine ecosystem, increase child benefit, limit lorry driver working hours, replenish the social housing stock, and prevent overseas buyers from hoovering up properties as "investments" (read, to rent out and take the profits overseas).

It's not what the Tories will do for women but what rights they won't take from us.

Which, if you'd read my post and previous other posters, you'd understand.

We can't protect women's spaces if our right to create single-sex spaces has been taken from us.

A woman's ability to leave an abuser is largely dependent on the State enacting laws that permit divorce, allow the courts to grant non-molestation orders, and allow feminist charities to operate single-sex shelters.

^^
It's that right to operate single-sex anything that a Labour govt threatens.

I'd say beware voting for Reform as a protest, people did that for Brexit, not suspecting that Leave would win.

In a single question yes/no referendum, every vote counts and there are no safe seats. In a Parliamentary election, there are safe seats.

Yes, but Reform could still end up with some MPs.

Would some Reform MPs reducing Labour's majority be objectively worse than a huge Labour majority that can do what it likes with impunity? I think not.

Parliament has hundreds of MPs in it, so I'm not scared of even Farage getting a few seats. And it might act as a wake-up call to the rest of them if he does.

The Tories have had massive 180 seat majorities and have done fuck all to protect women. Oh wait, they U- turned on their own proposal to bring in self ID to the UK at the last minute, but not because they cared on principle about women either way. Just because they could see it was an unpopular policy for them. Then they brought in the £5 GRC. What would have happened if the instability of Brexit hadn’t brought down the May government though and allowed new brooms in with a laser focus on popular policies? The UK could easily have had self ID if events or timing had been even slightly different.

And OK, it could have been a lot worse for women had they not U-turned. But I don’t want to spend my life saying ‘well come on now women, let’s all just think ourselves lucky that worse hasn’t happened to us’ . Because however modern we might consider ourselves, as women, we have never started from a place of equality with men. Ever. I don’t want to have to be grateful just for mercy from the government. We’re 51% of the population FFS. I want new legal protections for women. I don’t see these coming from any government any time soon.

I just don’t think salvation for women is coming from any political party, so I am not going to be voting in a general election on this single issue of sex and gender. Those of us who have been in these boards a long time will know that the only victories and protections women and girls have got so far- despite 14 years of Tory rule- have been through the crowdfunded cases in tribunals and courts that we have chipped in for. Maya for beliefs, Keira for children and consent, and the many others still ongoing.

Other political parties are watching this and have seen how contentious the self ID issue is. In a time of economic cost of living and climate crisis and international volatility, I find it hard to see how in government any of them would justify spending parliamentary time on trying to revive self ID.

But as always, together as women from all political stripes will have to challenge it, if they do. Just as we did with self ID before. There are incontrovertible facts, and culturally powerful backers, on the side of the sex realists. And public opinion is with us too. So personally I feel much more confident about being able to win that fight again, than I do about being able to win the fight against savage Tory cuts to the what’s left of the welfare state, the NHS and education.

However, sadly, I don’t think public opinion or powerful individuals are as it is now, effectively challenging the Tories on their consistent record of increasing child poverty or of letting disabled people suffer for lack of money or letting people starve to death unless the local community have supported their local food bank. I could go on, they are not being opposed effectively on not providing enough resources sources to educate SEN kids properly, or allowing water companies to pipe our rivers and seas full of shit despite media coverage, scandals and public outcry, the loss of biodiversity in the UK is among the worst in the developed world.

So no, I’m not voting Tory because they’ve already fucked up the country, increased child poverty, are corrupt as fuck and are continuing to on principle starve to death the public services on which many women rely.
I don’t wish to reward long term life-blighting governmental failure.

I will need to be able to feed, house, and to look after my family to give me any chance of fighting for women’s rights in future. I feel that based on the Tories’ record and aspirations, that that ability is going to be very threatened by an incoming Tory government. so I can’t in conscience vote for that. I’ll vote strategically for whoever is most likely to get the Tories out and will just have to work it out from there.

This isn’t a stable time in history when I expect to be able to vote for anyone without mixed feelings unfortunately, that is a luxury that’s way out of reach to a lot of people at the moment. And as JKR has said in the excellent Witch Trials podcast, if you have a very strong feeling that you’re really right about something, then that can be a flag that your very strong view is worth reexamining just to see if it really stacks up.

The thing is your post is premised on the idea that Labour had different economic proposals from the Tories, which is just NOT THE CASE.
Starmer would in my opinion be worse for working people than Rishi, who is at least constrained by the Tories reputation as the nasty party.

EvenMyWashingMachineCommittedSuicide · Today 09:23

Would some Reform MPs reducing Labour's majority be objectively worse than a huge Labour majority that can do what it likes with impunity? I think not.

Anyone else and I wouldn't really be bothers, but having a group of financially illiterate, often racist rabble rousers in Parliament would help to normalise them, in the eyes of many. Do we really want a dozen 10 p Lees there?

You know there was a public consultation on the GRA reform don't you Slothtoes?

Which indicated that the public didn't support the removal of the medical panel?

Which the government accepted and acted accordingly?

Are they more financially illiterate than Labour or the Tories?
Accusing them of effectively being potentially racist is meaningless, you are potentially racist, as am I.
What is a 10p Lee?

ADF as a protest vote? They seem to be in principle against all organised international cooperation between groups of countries on any subject, that makes no sense to me.

My Reform candidate is black - assuming he's racist without any knowledge of what he actually thinks could itself be seen as racist, no?

Lazy accusations of racism aren't going to work any more. Criticising immigration policy is not inherently racist.

Calling anyone who in any way criticises immigration policy a racist is just plain offensive and extremely hard of thinking.

they are not being opposed effectively
This sounds like you think that Labour have done a poor job of Opposing (the easiest job in the world because you are not responsible / accountable for anything) but will do a good job of Governing.
Not getting your logic there.

I agree there are dangers in voting for Reform as a protest vote. Even if they don’t win seats, a large increase in votes for them will signal that the country is supportive of xenophobic policies.

Reform is the most strongly associated with their strong stance on immigration. No one will make the link between Reform votes and women’s rights.

Also, because I believe it’s important to scrutinise your own views, I looked through the Reform manifesto. Some of it was surprisingly forward-thinking and appealing. But a large chunk of it was regressive, unworkable, deeply xenophobic, and nothing more than a dog whistle. You can be xenophobic and black, to answer a previous poster. You can also be black and hold internalised racist views, in the same way women can have internalised misogyny.

Reform said they would “force” France to take back refugees. Force France 😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️ Exactly how? Lots of their policies are just plain ridiculous but they know what their demographic wants them to say and they’re happy to oblige.

For anyone who wants to know about candidates in their area this website https://whocanivotefor.co.uk/ allows you to search. If you click on a candidates name you get their page with a link to their statement.

This is a good point. A lot of people feel frustration with the left of centre parties that they have failed to meaningfully address negative social and economic impacts of unchecked immigration (there are of course many, many positive aspects to immigration). This creates an opportunity for actual bigots and racists. It's been happening across Europe, Australia and the USA over the last 20-30 years.

I've been saying this for the last 15 years at least.

I don't resent immigrants as people, not at all, I like ones I know a lot, but God, do I resent the huge amount of house-building that rural England is being asked to absorb, the eating up of farmland, the complete alteration of the nature and character of villages and small towns. I accept that some housebuilding is driven by divorce, and people living longer, but not all of it is. England is small and, compared to eg France and Spain, a crowded country. every field that goes damages our food security and (where I live) housebuilding is putting a strain on the water supply.

Edited for typo.

Is your want to spoil your vote, just make sure you draw outside the lines...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-32658907

Fariha31

Are they more financially illiterate than Labour or the Tories? Accusing them of effectively being potentially racist is meaningless, you are potentially racist, as am I. What is a 10p Leel

Their tax and services cutting policies have been criticised heavily by economists, who say that they'd bankrupt the country and that they'd make Liz Truss's budget pale in comparison.

I can't help it if you haven't seen all the news stories about the unambiguously racist comments and online posts so may Reform candidates have made. If you want to believe that they're conventional and moderate, then that's up to you.

Lee Anderson, former Labour, switched sides twice and now Reform, talks populist mince and said, notoriously, that benefits are too high and that you can make a healthy meal for 30p. It was all over the news.