Women are being cast as intolerant bullies in this Starmer-drawn landscape of female-imposed weariness

[IwantToRetire]

Starmer (feels) weary of the incessant demands of feminist women that he commit to the annoying task of listening to them. He declared instead that “the people of the UK” are “exhausted” by the political battles over issues such as trans rights.

Keir (wants) to focus on “bringing people together rather than creating further division”. Who is Keir aiming to bring together? Women don’t want “bringing together” with men; that is rather the point and has been for more than a decade.

Sir Keir declared that he would “bring an end to those controversies [over trans rights] on day one.”

Is Keir assuming that all the women who have spent years campaigning, speaking, writing and lobbying in expectation that they would retain rights necessary for a safe and fair existence, simply forget what they were doing and wander off home in a daze?

It seems unlikely that immediately a woman from one of the large organisations advocating for women’s rights, like Sex Matters, said to another, “Come on Maya, you’ve had your fun, probably time to get a proper job now or sign on. People are fed up.”

Are we to assume the “vast majority” of these overly tired people are not women who want rights according to their sex? Women wanting single-sex prison accommodation, for example, are in Keir’s depiction of society, the unreasonable minority and it’s very tiring for the reasonable people to consider them. Although I imagine if you are the woman having to keep your eye on the male rapist in your cell, that could be a bit draining too.

Women are being cast as intolerant bullies in this Starmer-drawn landscape of female-imposed weariness. All the reasonable people want is peace. The “culture wars” have been long. Women have been putting culture guns to the tolerant people’s heads for too long and he will put an end to their irksome ways. The thing is, women are not a culture — the battle we fight is not for territory. Women are a sex, the female sex, and we fight for rights that we need when our bodies are the unfair focus of the opposite sex.

Moving ahead to day one of “The End of Pesky Women” I wonder what Keir imagines will happen. Perhaps at 4.30 pm exactly the miracle of women becoming silent women will occur; it seems a good time for women to wobble out of our various misguided, unreasonable groups, blinking in the sunlight, confused as to how we got it all so very wrong and made all the “other people” so exhausted. Perhaps there will be a party and women will clutch a plate of quiche and crisps, declaring to burn their rebellious t-shirts, ribbons, scarves and tea towels. Perhaps someone will be on the phone shouting over the music, “Scrap the ashtrays order, Kellie-Jay, it’s over love.”

https://thecritic.co.uk/culture-war-what-is-it-good-for/

(This is a much longer article raising many issues about Starmer’s Labour and women – I just pulled out the ones that struck home for me.)

Does it signal that Labourite women are as dissatisfied with Starmer's offerings on this issue as other dissatisfied Lefty and non-Lefty women?

Not sure. WPUK are keeping a very low profile.

I think at least it is a recognition that there is no one (right) way to keep the issue on the political agenda.

In fact the wider variety of groups, or politics or whatever, all raising the same issue is a far greater sucess than it being presented as a concern of one strand of politics.

That's a good point, I haven't heard much from or about WPUK of late. I know that Labour Women's Declaration are trying to work within the party but I haven't seen them being able to claim any changes in party policy from that approach. It seems as thought Labour are, sadly for LWD, more responsive to criticism in the media from outside the party, especially during election season.

I've check WPUK web site. Nothing.

Whatever your intention was, the outcome was to position yourself as somehow being 'kinder' than a group of women you seem to have a particular perception about and seem to disagree to some degree with.

You didn't actually do anything more than say 'I'm alright Jack', even though you don't believe that you 'come on here' with that attitude.

You expressed a view about changing rooms that also doesn't reflect the material reality of changing room availability today. There ARE many communal changing rooms. Your opinion didn't address this existing situation at all, it ignored it.

Of course, trans people have a right to be considered. They do not have the right to be considered to be the same sex category that they have identified as though. I would ask you to judge just how many posters on this board declare very clearly that trans people should not be considered in any way. If you find any, please feel free to tell them what you think.

Instead, you will most likely find many people stating that options should be provided for people with trans identities, however, that in some instances sex needs to be prioritised.

The effect of this statement in your first post, "I'm tired of being fed the line that somehow trans people threaten women's rights and I'm tired of being told I'm somehow simple or ill-informed if I do not share the anti-trans rhetoric.", was to position any person who does see not only the 'threat', but the actual changes to women's rights as being 'anti-trans'. Perhaps you didn't consider your words at all in your hurry to distance yourself from people who disagree with you on some things.

While you declare that you don't feel your rights, personally, are being eroded, you really are as 'ill-informed' as you have been accused of. Very clear examples have already been brought up but we can see this in what has happened in prisons, in women's refuges and rape services, in hospital wards, in sports, and in the forced provision now of mixed sex 'single cubicle' toileting and changing facilities. Which you have made very clear that you, personally, are happy with. So, fucking what. Did you really ever think of the girls and the women are are not happy with finding a male person in a space they had believed was single sex?

Do you honestly think that in those instances, you are being 'kind'? Far from it.

But seriously, if you don't care, go use the mixed sex provisions and feel great. Let those who do need the single sex spaces campaign to make sure that they are single sex without your censuring and intentional or not positioning them as 'anti-trans'.

I think that in itself says something significant.

I've created a thread about Labour Women's Declaration re LP Manifesto, which is basically supportive of the Labour Party.

But somehow all those who like to go on threads that aren't about supporting the Labour Party somehow dont want to be on a thread about voting for Labour.

Contrarians

@IwantToRetire

An article is an opinion piece.
No, it really isn't. If you wish to be technical, an opinion piece is a type of article. It is preferred to make it clear what kind of article you have copied across verbatim.

A report is a factual account of what has been said or done.
That is rarely so.

But as always, it is a diversion from talking about the substance.
Nope, I simply wished to point out that the substance was opinion, not fact.

Isn't it strange that all these posters who think Labour is being maligned on FWR never start their own thread where they could congregate and spread the good word from Labour central office.
Strangely, when we do create our threads, we get complaints about that, too? I am not from "Labour central office", just as you, apparently, don't all vote Tory.

It is preferred to make it clear what kind of article you have copied across verbatim.

Preferred by whom? Most people just read the article and make of what they will. It’s quite clear from the OP and the article what is meant by both.

But as always, it is a diversion from talking about the substance.
Nope, I simply wished to point out that the substance was opinion, not fact.

I think you will find that ever other reader had not problem with discerning that.

Somehow you weren't able to, but you cant turn your personal problems with comprehension into some sort of blanket approach.

Apart from anything else it is so trivial.

Just another diversion.

@IwantToRetire

I think you will find that ever other reader had not problem with discerning that.
Did you run a survey?

Did you run a survey?

Probably at the same time you ran a survey to back up your statement “it is preferred to make it clear”.

That isn't based on a sample of MN posters on a thread, though.

I am so tired of conservative activists acting as though multiple Conservative governments haven't been up to their necks in allowing gender ideology to run amok. The first trans MP is a Tory who socially transitioned after he was caught being cross dressed after a car accident from driving while impaired, for heavens sake. It's not like conservatism doesn't have its AGPs!

Feminists have a cross-the-board job on our hands to push back genderism, no matter who wins the election. A few years ago I thought women were making a cross-party coalition to fight back, but I am increasingly realising that for some conservatives this is all just a handy election campaign.

Perhaps at 4.30 pm exactly the miracle of women becoming silent women will occur; it seems a good time for women to wobble out of our various misguided, unreasonable groups, blinking in the sunlight, confused as to how we got it all so very wrong and made all the “other people” so exhausted.

Reminded me of ECCLESIASTICUS 26:14 KJV "A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord; and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed."

Makes FWR posters being accused of being part of the religious right rather ironic when it is the #bekind and #nodebate brigade who both adhere to and exhort other women to adhere to those religious precepts.

Plus, is it just me or does it feel that there’s been a concerted effort more recently by new user names to determinedly paint FWR posters as being ‘anti-trans’? And this continues despite response after response patiently pointing out that no one is anti trans and the issue of concern on these boards remain women’s safety and privacy and the safeguarding of vulnerable young people!

NB. Really wasn’t a problem understanding that the ‘article’ was an ironic opinion piece using literary licence to make a point. Though I appreciate that there a range of responses to literacy devices.

Thanks op for the ermm... words.

Jean Hatchet - who I know has a tangled history with certain factions - has also been quite interesting on Twix recently, e.g. this thread yesterday:

'If you’ve previously been massively vocal about women’s services and single sex space - but now that Labour have let us all down with their commitment to do sweet fuck all to enforce protections - you’re not saying much about it - why? Where’s the fury?

'Yes we feminists know the Tories are seventy kinds of shit for women. Yes we know Labour are the better choice for women for all sorts of reasons other than the trans issue. But you can criticise them on this one issue. You can let them know how you feel. I’d contend it’s your duty on behalf of victim survivors.

'You can’t have it all ways. You can call me a trouble causer who should stay quiet so that Labour get in. Maybe I’m not being clever enough in your eyes. Probably a class thing you’re struggling with there. Labour are getting in power anyway. Now is the time to rattle the cage and shake the complacent. Why aren’t you rattling?

'We can all still vote Labour if we want at the end of the day if we choose. But we can do it knowing we gave them our vote after giving them a piece of our minds on this. If you’re not - it’s either fear (I don’t think it is) or you want to rub shoulders with power once they have it.

'If it’s the latter - well- I hope whatever you’re telling yourself lets you sleep.'

[[https://x.com/JeanHatchet/status/1802982785818227168

And apologies if it's already been linked, I will confess I skipped a couple of pages of debate about the meaning of the word 'article'.

And I confess that the idea of being an 'intolerant bully' immediately filled me with a strange kind of envy, I pictured my not-very-courageous self bravely elbowing my way through hordes of hostile misogynists saying
'LET ME THROUGH, I'M AN INTOLERANT BULLY'

I don't know if this is an appropriate thread for this, but the Maya thread has just been pulled - MN said it's under Police investigation...

Mayas tweets are under investigation. I doubt the MN thread is.

Reading back the comments on this thread, it does strike me that the public are tired of this nonsense.

They are tired of having to explain safeguarding and tired of having to justify the mere principle of single sex spaces.

They are starting to really give no shits over the whole 'be kind' stuff, because that's tone deaf, misses the point and isn't really kind either.

They also no longer buy into the nonsense of it being inclusive. Because it's not.

I think the premise of the Steven Moffat drama never week, is the idea that you can only cancel people who give a shit.

To an extra we are now at the point of jumping the shark on that. Women here only care so much about being branded as bigots (there still are implications for careers etc mind).

The danger is if you push too hard, then people will stop caring about others full stop. At the moment women here will say they do care about other groups including trans people. But push too far and that will tip into giving no shits if it actually harms trans people. (And yes will turn to the far right).

Rory Stewart and Alistair Campbell were both openly saying last night about the UK being an outlier and out of step with the rest of Europe in that we are looking at a left wing soft socialist government next - and they feared what would follow it.

This isn't something being whispered about. This is a very legitimate concern being voiced by influential people in liberal circles. I was surprised but relieved to hear them saying it tbh.

Starmer would be very very unwise to ignore it even if he does become PM, because this isn't just about the next government. It's also about the government that follows it.

Thanks for the update.
I stand by what I said.
And it's pretty clear now why certain individuals visit this board.

Peskysquirrel · Today 11:18

And it's pretty clear now why certain individuals visit this board.

Well, yes. I'm assuming that screenshots were taken and similarly minded people told to do the same, then the Stasi were informed. Either they, or the informer has then told MN, who have acted to protect themselves, which is fair enough.

How does that work with the story being reported by three national newspapers?

Putting it in a newspaper guarantees to get people talking about it. All the below the Line comments were talking about it.

Basically if you watched Years and Years on the TV a couple of years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_and_Years_(TV_series)

Theres significant concern that this isn't a wildly unrealistic scenario for the UK.

Going into this election, it does resonant.

(Quite why Russell T Davis thinks this is a possibly then goes full on mental with The Woke preachy stuff on Dr Who is quite beyond me though).

Seems like a good time to post this;
''Men hate feminism because they hate women. As a result, both right wing and left wing men tend to associate feminism with ideologies that they regard as detestable.
For right wing, feminists are Marxists, witches, anti religious, anti 'family values‘, pro-lesbianism, 'feminazis' etc.
For left wing men, feminists are conservative, racist, white supremacists, islamophobes, Nazis, fascists, colonialists, etc.
Either way, it's always about silencing women.
It's always misogyny.''