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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women are being cast as intolerant bullies in this Starmer-drawn landscape of female-imposed weariness

153 replies

IwantToRetire · 18/06/2024 00:42

Starmer (feels) weary of the incessant demands of feminist women that he commit to the annoying task of listening to them. He declared instead that “the people of the UK” are “exhausted” by the political battles over issues such as trans rights.

Keir (wants) to focus on “bringing people together rather than creating further division”. Who is Keir aiming to bring together? Women don’t want “bringing together” with men; that is rather the point and has been for more than a decade.

Sir Keir declared that he would “bring an end to those controversies [over trans rights] on day one.”

Is Keir assuming that all the women who have spent years campaigning, speaking, writing and lobbying in expectation that they would retain rights necessary for a safe and fair existence, simply forget what they were doing and wander off home in a daze?

It seems unlikely that immediately a woman from one of the large organisations advocating for women’s rights, like Sex Matters, said to another, “Come on Maya, you’ve had your fun, probably time to get a proper job now or sign on. People are fed up.”

Are we to assume the “vast majority” of these overly tired people are not women who want rights according to their sex? Women wanting single-sex prison accommodation, for example, are in Keir’s depiction of society, the unreasonable minority and it’s very tiring for the reasonable people to consider them. Although I imagine if you are the woman having to keep your eye on the male rapist in your cell, that could be a bit draining too.

Women are being cast as intolerant bullies in this Starmer-drawn landscape of female-imposed weariness. All the reasonable people want is peace. The “culture wars” have been long. Women have been putting culture guns to the tolerant people’s heads for too long and he will put an end to their irksome ways. The thing is, women are not a culture — the battle we fight is not for territory. Women are a sex, the female sex, and we fight for rights that we need when our bodies are the unfair focus of the opposite sex.

Moving ahead to day one of “The End of Pesky Women” I wonder what Keir imagines will happen. Perhaps at 4.30 pm exactly the miracle of women becoming silent women will occur; it seems a good time for women to wobble out of our various misguided, unreasonable groups, blinking in the sunlight, confused as to how we got it all so very wrong and made all the “other people” so exhausted. Perhaps there will be a party and women will clutch a plate of quiche and crisps, declaring to burn their rebellious t-shirts, ribbons, scarves and tea towels. Perhaps someone will be on the phone shouting over the music, “Scrap the ashtrays order, Kellie-Jay, it’s over love.”

https://thecritic.co.uk/culture-war-what-is-it-good-for/

(This is a much longer article raising many issues about Starmer’s Labour and women – I just pulled out the ones that struck home for me.)

Culture war, what is it good for? | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

Last week saw the release of the Labour Party manifesto. Many women had anticipated this with a growing sense of dread. It delivered on that anticipation of doom most effectively.

https://thecritic.co.uk/culture-war-what-is-it-good-for

OP posts:
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8
endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 08:58

Scruffily · 18/06/2024 08:48

Women don’t want “bringing together” with men; that is rather the point and has been for more than a decade.

That's rather a large assumption. I suspect that, at the very least, a hefty proportion of women regard themselves as equal to men and are perfectly happy to be together with them. I work with men and women on an equal footing every day, I socialise with them on the same basis. I would find it bizarre to be trying to do anything else. I can't see what's wrong with trying to extend that for society as a whole.

The issue most women object to is the bringing women together with men in their toilets, changing rooms, prisons, refuges, rape crisis centres, hospital wards. Especially if the motivation of those men is to force women to validate their fetish.
Nothing to to with working with men etc.

kiterunning · 18/06/2024 09:03

Hoping that some articulate callers will challenge him.

Sazzasez · 18/06/2024 09:03

EdenPalmersTerfAuntie · 18/06/2024 06:54

Good luck with that Kier! I think a pop up women's rights festival outside no 10 on the 5th July is a good idea.

A great idea!

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 09:07

SEN/schools now. Nick Ferrari seems to be keeping him to the point.(Explaining the question).

makeanddo · 18/06/2024 09:25

In LBC so far we have:

Single spaces and safe spaces

No mention of biological sex or single sex spaces.

AnotherAngryAcademic · 18/06/2024 09:32

”We will protect single spaces for women and girls.”

”We will protect safe spaces for women and girls.”

Spot the missing word…

He was then asked by NF: “If I Identify as a woman will I be in a women’s ward in hospital?” KS said no, and suggested NF would be given a side room. (Apparently, this already happens all the time!) What about if NF had a GRC?

(No Qs about RD threats yet.)

Helleofabore · 18/06/2024 10:26

The missing word is key. It leads to some people making over confident claims that ‘Labour will uphold the EA exceptions to mean sex without exception of GRC’. How some posters can make such claims is beyond me. They must have a special insight into Starmer’s plans because LWD, who you would expect would know enough to have confidence, have no confidence in Starmer and his team’s words.

And this game of missing words continues.

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 10:37

I agree with him. I'm tired of some women speaking as if they represent all women. I'm tired of being fed the line that somehow trans people threaten women's rights and I'm tired of being told I'm somehow simple or ill-informed if I do not share the anti-trans rhetoric.

I do not consider all men to be inherently predatory which is the belief that underpins the anti-trans argument. Of course I know that some men are, but I believe these men are in the minority of men and their actions should not define how we make policy or live our lives.

BackToLurk · 18/06/2024 10:42

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 10:37

I agree with him. I'm tired of some women speaking as if they represent all women. I'm tired of being fed the line that somehow trans people threaten women's rights and I'm tired of being told I'm somehow simple or ill-informed if I do not share the anti-trans rhetoric.

I do not consider all men to be inherently predatory which is the belief that underpins the anti-trans argument. Of course I know that some men are, but I believe these men are in the minority of men and their actions should not define how we make policy or live our lives.

Given that you "do not consider all men to be inherently predatory" (which was never actually in doubt, but hey), why do you think any spaces or services should exclude men at all? Or don't you? Do you think everything should be mixed sex?

Floisme · 18/06/2024 10:47

I don't consider all men inherently predatory either, in fact the two people I love the most in the whole world are men. It's just that I've never figured out a reliable way to tell the predatory ones from the decent ones, and especially not at first meeting. Any tips welcome but, until then, I'd like to keep my single sex spaces please whenever I'm undressed or vulnerable.

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 11:01

@BiggerBoat1
Why, in your opinion, do single sex spaces exist? As pp asked, should everything just be mixed sex? Toilets, refuges, etc. Only a few men are predatory, so how many rapes and assaults are acceptable?

Datun · 18/06/2024 11:01

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 10:37

I agree with him. I'm tired of some women speaking as if they represent all women. I'm tired of being fed the line that somehow trans people threaten women's rights and I'm tired of being told I'm somehow simple or ill-informed if I do not share the anti-trans rhetoric.

I do not consider all men to be inherently predatory which is the belief that underpins the anti-trans argument. Of course I know that some men are, but I believe these men are in the minority of men and their actions should not define how we make policy or live our lives.

Well that's fine. You can use the mixed toilets, mixed changing rooms, mixed wards, mixed sports, and if you had to, mixed prisons and refuges.

And women like me who don't want to, can use the single sex provision.

Job done.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 18/06/2024 11:03

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 10:37

I agree with him. I'm tired of some women speaking as if they represent all women. I'm tired of being fed the line that somehow trans people threaten women's rights and I'm tired of being told I'm somehow simple or ill-informed if I do not share the anti-trans rhetoric.

I do not consider all men to be inherently predatory which is the belief that underpins the anti-trans argument. Of course I know that some men are, but I believe these men are in the minority of men and their actions should not define how we make policy or live our lives.

Yes, a minority of men are predatory. How do we tell them apart from the good ones, please?

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 11:03

Yes I am happy to share spaces with trans women.
I value privacy so would always want a cubicle in a changing room but with that caveat I’m happy to share that space with men. Same with toilets. Why not?

DrNickedMaCorpus · 18/06/2024 11:04

these men are in the minority of men and their actions should not define how we make policy or live our lives.

Most women are accustomed to taking safety precautions. Most women don't walk home alone at night, etc. So yes, the risk of predatory men does affect most women and how we live our lives. Unfortunate, but true.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 18/06/2024 11:05

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 11:03

Yes I am happy to share spaces with trans women.
I value privacy so would always want a cubicle in a changing room but with that caveat I’m happy to share that space with men. Same with toilets. Why not?

Because for some, not all, cross dressing is a fetish. Have you not seen the videos of men masturbating while wearing women's clothing in women's loos?

Datun · 18/06/2024 11:06

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 11:03

Yes I am happy to share spaces with trans women.
I value privacy so would always want a cubicle in a changing room but with that caveat I’m happy to share that space with men. Same with toilets. Why not?

For you? evidently no reason.

Knock yourself out.

I have absolutely no issue if you want to share your changing room with men.

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 11:07

What about refuges? Women and children who are reduced to terror just at the sound of a male voice? They should just get on with it and share the space because not all men etc etc.

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 11:10

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 11:03

Yes I am happy to share spaces with trans women.
I value privacy so would always want a cubicle in a changing room but with that caveat I’m happy to share that space with men. Same with toilets. Why not?

Good example of " I'm alright Jack".

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 11:13

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 11:07

What about refuges? Women and children who are reduced to terror just at the sound of a male voice? They should just get on with it and share the space because not all men etc etc.

Absolutely not. Of course men shouldn’t be in refuges. Of course there are some spaces that need to be women only.

Peskysquirrel · 18/06/2024 11:14

Of course there are some spaces that need to be women only.

Why?

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 11:15

Pte

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 11:16

Peskysquirrel · 18/06/2024 11:14

Of course there are some spaces that need to be women only.

Why?

You have to ask?

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 11:16

Presumably rape victims need to use public toilets? But toilets are ok to be mixed. I am finding the logic a bit tricky here.

Peskysquirrel · 18/06/2024 11:16

BiggerBoat1 · 18/06/2024 11:16

You have to ask?

Yes. I have to ask. Why do you think that? Explain it to me.