To think there may be a few silent Tory voters amongst the GC contingent

[IrnBruLolly]

Having just skim read both manifestos I'm now wondering if there will be quite a few silent Tory voters from the GC contingent.

Tories are saying they will: 'introduce primary legislation to clarify that the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act means biological sex. This will guarantee that single sex services and single sex spaces can be provided, for example in healthcare and sports settings, to ensure women and girls are protected.'

^'We are clear that on fundamental matters of personal identity there should be one approach across the country, so we will also legislate so that an individual can only have one sex in the eyes of the law in the United Kingdom.'^

'Labour are saying they will: 'protect LGBT+ and disabled people by making all existing strands of hate crime an aggravated offence.'

'So-called conversion therapy is abuse – there is no other word for it – so Labour will finally deliver a full trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices, while protecting the freedom for people to explore their sexual orientation and gender identity.'

'We will also modernise, simplify, and reform the intrusive and outdated gender recognition law to a new process. We will remove indignities for trans people who deserve recognition and acceptance; whilst retaining the need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a specialist doctor, enabling access to the healthcare pathway.'^

Tbf, they also say 'Labour is proud of our Equality Act and the rights and protections it affords women; we will continue to support the implementation of its single-sex exceptions.'

Thing is, I'm not sure they know what a woman actually is. 🤔

Yep - OP did you really miss all of the “at least Boris Johnson knows what a woman is and how to impregnate her” posts from two years ago?

There appear to be more Tory supporters amongst GC women than any other party, based on the comments on here.

so Labour will finally deliver a full trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices, while protecting the freedom for people to explore their sexual orientation and gender identity"

That's contradictory. "Conversion therapy" is a euphamism for exploratory therapy, "exploring gender identity" could mean anything. Labour can't be trusted on this.

No it isn't Conversion therapy means religious therapies, aversion therapy like electric shock treatments, that kind of thing. It is pretty barbaric stuff.

I really really wouldn't advise you to lecture this board on conversion therapy. It's in large part because of us that Cass happened. And that the Tories rowed back from self-ID. Here, have this too since you're so fond of ending on an emoji

Well Labour told me to leave … so I did!

BUT tbh I’m not sure Boris knows what day it is…

I've been a single issue voter for quite a while. I started with summer borns not being in school early at age 4, added stopping domestic abuse through the family courts, and now protecting single sex spaces for women and girls. I have over my lifetime voted for nearly all parties but found single issue a good way for me to focus. So who do I vote for this election? Very little choice. I'm not prepared to compromise my single issue so it is highly likely to be Tory. I don't think we will even have a labour candidate, definitely not lib dem or green, no to reform, so leaves independent on their single issue and tory. So does a large development win over single sex space rights? No. So yes probably Tory and this is why.

It’s also conversion therapy is you attempt to change someone’s sexual orientation.

Such as ‘your not a lesbian - your a trans man.

Transing the gay away..

When was the last time someone was given electric shock treatment as conversion therapy because they were gay or identified as trans? Surely that's already banned.

Yes, all of that is conversion therapy and applying it to gender identity or sexuality is barbaric for sure.

However, you seem to be unaware of the rest of the spectrum of what is now classed as "conversion therapy".

According to Stonewall, only therapy which is gender "affirming" is acceptable.

If counselling/therapy isn't gender affirming, then it's considered to be conversion therapy.

This means if a child experiencing what Cass describes as "gender distress" presents at a clinic, they can only have therapy which affirms their belief that they are the wrong sex. They can't have any therapy which would challenge this belief, or explore whether there are other reasons for the gender distress ie/neurodivergence, trauma, mental health disorders, etc.

So what we would class as normal psychotherapy which has the goal of allowing the individual to safely explore the full extent of any issues, Stonewall classifies as conversion therapy. And it's this type of conversion therapy that Labour will ban.

So effectively what you're saying is that no child will be allowed to have professional therapy to question whether they really are trans, and all therapy must cheerlead for them continuing on their trans journey. No therapy can ever suggest that there may be other issues causing the gender distress. All gender beliefs must be affirmed in every way.

Myself and many other women, and an increasing number of professionals, all believe that this is negligent, reckless, and far below the standard of care that should be delivered.

If you've read the Cass report you'll know why gender-affirming only therapy is so problematic. And if you haven't read Cass, then you really should if you want to comment on this issue.

It's the definition of what counts as conversion therapy which is so alarming.

Also to address the actual subject of this thread, I don't know what to do.

I think Starmer is a good man, a principled man, and I think he would be one of the most morally decent PMs we've had in a very long time. His track record of working on human rights cases is outstanding.

But I am a single issue voter for this election. Women's rights are what matters to me because once gone, we'll never get them back. And I'm certain that self-ID will absolutely muddy the waters - unless Labour can commit to defining woman as being sex-based, we'll lose the protection we need for vulnerable spaces, sports etc.

I absolutely loathe the Tories. And I'm well aware that they're using the women's rights issue to try and curry favour, and I know that the majority of the (mainly male) Tory MPs don't actually give a shit. But the net result is the same - our rights would be protected and enshrined in law.

So do I vote Tory and then hope we can actually get them out at the next election, and just keep my fingers crossed they don't do too much damage to everything else???

What the hell do left-leaning voters like myself do on 4th July?!

In good conscience there is NO-ONE I feel I can vote for. Genuinely feel like not bothering, and I've always voted. I'd vote for Party of Women, but there's no candidate in my area. Feel thoroughly disillusioned with the whole thing right now. There's so many things wrong with British society and no party has any idea how to fix them.

Do you remember the date of the Tory consultation instigated by TRA pressure.

Were you in anyway in the Tory years before that actively campaigning or raising the issue of the undermining of women's sex based rights.

I doubt it.

Nearly everyone on FWR admits up until that consultation many of us weren't aware of the impact of the GRA on the EA.

And it is only because of that realisation that so many women became activists.

So saying they didn't act on it is just plain silly.

More relevant as why so many women were ignorant of what was about to happen.

And also, I dont think anyone with a grasp of day to day politics would think this issue would be foremost in any party's agenda.

Also, this sort of glib its all the Tories fault is a gross insult to all the women who did come together and organise ie did more than just complain of FWR.

No doubt you can provide copies of the letters and emails you were writing to the Tory government from when they came into power telling them their priority should be to clarify the meaning of sex in the EA.

I am sure you will be happy to share them.

They've had 14 years in power More than enough time to change things, so the excuse they inherited it doesnt wash..

@IwantToRetire

The reality is, is that if Labour had been in power, self id would already be now part of law, and may well be once they get back in.

That isn't a reality, as you can't know it would have occurred, nor that it will. You're simply fear-mongering.

Surely based on endless discussion on here, it is obvious that it has been a long time of pressure that means it shows the Tories are listening to women, and Labour isn't.

PS I am no a Tory voter - but I like to deal in facts. Labour will sell women out.

Argh! Apologies for the cut and paste fail.

Don't people think most GCs are tory voters, why would they be silent? Or am I misunderstanding the thread?

Given their track record for lying, it just seems highly unlikely they are suddenly being honest on this.

The Tories have been completely focused on the splits in their own party all century. Their attention has not been on running the country. All the disasters and magical thinking (Brexit, Liz Truss and so on) are down to this. When they actually had to do a bit of actual governing, as in COVID, they were clearly scared. They have some good people, but all the party discipline of a bunch of teenagers at a rave. Labour is manipulative, authoritarian and secretive. But not all Labour MPs are. I think my vote has to go that way. Unfortunately.

In my area the choice is really between Plaid Cymru and Conservative. I've no idea really how to vote. Plaid + Labour have made a mess of health care here. I'm not bothered about the 20 limits but the council tax changes for holiday lets have financially screwed many people locally including farmers who relied on that extra income. And they are totally captured on trans issues - their manifesto contains some scary things.
But bloody hell, voting Tory after Brexit and partygate and Truss induced interest rate spike and countless other hideous things, because they have GC policies, ugh. Can I hold my nose and do it? And hope for better locally combined with change of government in Westminster?
The only alternatives are protest voting or not voting. I've never felt like this at election time before.

I'm voting based in individual candidate rather than party. Waiting for them to get back to me on the list of questions I sent, then it will be either Libdem, Labour or Conservative.

The problem I'm having is lack of information. Scarce leaflets, no hustings, fuck all info on websites etc.

It's almost like they're not bothering trying.

Oh I think it would have been - regarding self id. A couple of years back Labour were a juggernaut with the trans issue. Lisa Nandy on live TV saying rapists should be able to choose which prisons they go in cemented what they would do. Yes they have tried to row back a little by not being out right TRA now but they just act as if it is a non issue and irritation ( The odious Loyyd Russel excluded)

Kemi and Rosie have been doing great work on this for a long time but it largely was ignored by the tories until it became a thing they could jump on and Labour actively battered Rosie down.

Yes I agree with this.

Although I think they feel it’s not about policies but about popularity. SM has done a very very good job at polarising people. It’s become very tribal and not about policies anymore.

‘Rich V Poor’ there is no middle ground - where actually most of us sit

This

So do I vote Tory and then hope we can actually get them out at the next election, and just keep my fingers crossed they don't do too much damage to everything else???

What the hell do left-leaning voters like myself do on 4th July?!

I have been deep of thought for some time and I cannot work out what to do. The Labour Manifesto is so light on real detail that they could do anything once in government and twist the manifesto to say whatever they like. Too many gaps, we are taken for fools by all of them and...... Reform scares the shit out of me.

My Tory MP is ok and understands my concerns about self-id and women's rights but he's not fully on board but he's in a very safe seat. More thought required as putting an X in the blue seat would be very difficult but I will if I have to.