Keir Starmer to end Tory Culture Wars

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Oh what a relief. Where would we be without him?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-keir-starmer-says-he-will-end-tory-culture-wars-if-he-becomes-prime-minister_uk_6666d7d2e4b02fc48bf3ec39?d_id=7763591&ncid_tag=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=uk_main

ArabellaScott · Today 12:50

Women's rights and children's safety are not 'far right', and the fact that these have been positioned as such not only by the right wing but also by the left wing is highly dangerous bullshit.

That's very neatly encapsulated, I hadn't thought about it like that.

ArabellaScott · Today 12:50

Women's rights and children's safety are not 'far right', and the fact that these have been positioned as such not only by the right wing but also by the left wing is highly dangerous bullshit.

That's very neatly encapsulated, I hadn't thought about it like that.

Phew! Thanks for that. I was worried for a moment but I can now relax knowing that it is simply part of your parody.

Culture wars = Abuse of women.

CassieMaddox · Today 19:43

And do you also assume people like JKR condone the far right and Tommy Robinson because they haven't condemned the LWS stewards handing out leaflets and marching at a TR event?

I'm not sure why you think that JKR is in any way responsible for what was said and done at a Timmy Robertson rally, which she didn't attend. You know, quite unlike two Scottish politicians standing in front of the notorious "Decapitate TERFS" sign.

They're in no way comparable.

And did you ask the PP stereotyping the left to do that? Or is that not relevant if its "the other side"?

Maybe you should read the post I was replying to again.
Or maybe not.

The reason I ask is because "right winger" now appears to mean anyone who doesn't believe humans can change sex.

You're going round in circles now. The context of that post where you say they were "stereotyping the left" was this:

I think it's worth pausing for thought as to what "left wing" and "right wing" might actually mean. For instance, some of the core beliefs of the modern radical-progressive are:

What you are referring to as "stereotyping" was someone defining what seems to be meant by left wing currently.

I'm late to commenting on this thread, but this post really spoke to me.

It seems to me that this is something a lot of people who just generally think of themselves as on the left because the left believes in "helping people" don't really get. Lots of working people want good jobs and to have a good community through their work. They don't want to be reduced to people who need handouts from their "betters" even if it is framed as justice or reparations.

Yes please.
Sick to death of "save us from people who are trans in the toilets!" and "fly people to Rwanda if I don't think they're British enough" etc
When most people in RL who I know anyway just want you to get a grip on energy prices, food costs and sort the NHS out.

Cassie

Maybe you should read the post I was replying to again.Or maybe not.

OK, I can see that you have no explanation of your irrelevant post. I still don't see why you expect her to condemn Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon every few minutes of her existence.

As far as the idea that young people are taking a turn to the right.

I think there are quite a few signs of this as well, including clear polling that suggests it's the case.

We are seeing it in Europe, and also in the US. There is an increasing disaffection of young black men from the Democrat Party. There has been a significant increase of black men supporting the Republican party in general, and Trump in particular, and almost all of them are in the under 30 category.

I think what we're seeing there is the same pattern we've seen over the last decade or so with working class white men. These guys don't want hand outs either, they want good jobs in strong communities, and they don't want to be pandered to.

NatCen have published new data which indicates that the loathing of this country comes from the left. And it's doubled in 20 years. This is where the negative culture originates.

NatCen@NatCen
·
21hThose who are ‘very proud’ of Britain’s history are 40 points more likely than those who are ‘not very’ or ‘not at all’ proud to support the Conservatives or Reform/UKIP. The equivalent figure in 2013 was little more than half that – 21 points.

Somehow kf and 4chan are both full of teens living in their moms basement and also fully formed adults?

Schrodingers forums be like.

I'm getting quite strong authoritarian vibes from Starmer. We already know he is ruthless in getting rid of MPs who "spoil" his message or damage the image; he certainly doesn't intend to get to the heart of the trans agenda issue and resolve it - which could be done quite easily. He's just putting his fingers in his ears and refusing to actively listen and understand; and he's also promising to force things on local authorities whether they like it or not - when it comes to building, planning and development.

He comes across as deeply bland, but that disguises his true nature, I reckon.

I don't. I am objecting to the striking double standards. Many posters seem to want to hold "the left" to higher standards, and simultaneously believe they are the source of all the world's ills. Despite "the left" not being in power for 14 years and Starmer’s Labour barely being "the left" at all.

Meanwhile the crazy antics of "the right" are either overlooked or explained away as am entirely reasonable response to "the left" being mean.

Its flipping ridiculous at this point. In psychology there is this transactional analysis model. Right wingers seem to permanently be in "rebellious child" mode.

I didn't say anything like that 😂
I think KF and 4chan are full of bitter grown ups stuck in rebellious child mode too.

Well luckily we get to know for sure in 3 weeks.
I think the polling so far doesn't support your argument.

Here's an image from another thread of the types of voter turning out to listen to Reform/NF. Wouldn't say "young men" are a particularly striking feature.

Maybe this is another deflection on to someone else to blame if the far right get a high vote share. For some reason people who vote for them seem unable to own their choices. It's always someone else's fault.

Later on, on the PM programme on Radio 4, Philippe Lamberts (a Belgian MEP and the Co-Leader of the Greens/EFA Group in the European Parliament) was saying that people in general are looking at the Greens and seeing well off and well educated urban elites who spend their time lecturing the rest of society.

Years ago a colleague just casually referred to the Greens as "the teacher party"

We already have a tory government and we, as a country, vote in cycles. This move towards Labour is predictable.

The question is, are we ahead or behind the curve in relation to what is happening across Europe. That I think will depend on the direction of starmers government and will determine whether he is a one term wonder or not.

And if Labour only get one term in government, who will get in at the following GE?

Not necessarily the Tories.

As I keep saying, the centre left / left really needs to sort its shit out, and it's not doing that at the moment - the opposite, in fact.

Labour Manifesto to be launched at 11.00 I believe.

You seem to have missed the point here. Have a look at this post by @CantDealwithChristmas and replies by @RedToothBrush and others.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5094288-keir-starmer-to-end-tory-culture-wars?reply=135963255&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

This is from that post:

TBH, my experience of genuine working class culture, having grown up in one, is that working class people tend to be small-c conservative on social issues, and indeed quite 'right' on some social, economic and domestic policy issues.

The original Labour movement reflected this.

It was Blairism which repositioned Labour towards free market liberalism. It then coopted American identity politics due to the influx of younger members in the late 2010s and that is the unholy Labour 'movement' we have now.

It doesn't really reflect the concerns of working classes anywhere in the UK and the middle classes pay lip service to it cos it benefits them career wise.

This is the problem with the left. People who are holding the left to higher standards are doing that because they are left wing in their political inclinations. Many are or have been Labour party members. They don't complain in the same way about the Tories (or 'the right') because they have never agreed with their politics or voted for them. The Tories are just that party that they would never vote for anyway. They don't expect to agree with them so when they have disagreements with their policies, it's just what's expected.

What do those working class Labour voters do now that Labour has become yet another party supporting middle class interests? I agree with your point about Starmer barely being 'the left' (because that is a large part of the problem with them), but they are still portraying themselves as a party of the left, while not representing the interests of traditional left wing voters at all.

Many left wing people here are saying they have no one to vote for. But some traditional Labour voters (not the ones on FWR) are instead turning to the more extremist parties which seem to appeal to some of their concerns. Labour has to take some of the blame for this because of their refusal to acknowledge the real concerns of traditional Labour voters.