To those who consider prostitution rape...

[Ahsoka2001]

I recently found some old MN threads where posters debated whether a man who has sex with a prostitute commits rape. Those in favour argued that the woman's consent is not freely given - it is conditional on the basis money is exchanged and consent cannot be bought -

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3012135-Is-prostitution-rape

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/2791778-does-having-sex-with-a-prostitute-constitute-rape

To those who agree with this position, I'm wondering where exactly do we draw the line? If all prostitution is rape, then -

a) What about female pornstars? They only have sex on camera on the condition that they are paid for the shoot. Does this mean every male pornstar in history is a rapist because the woman's consent was bought and not freely given?

b) What about mainstream/narrative cinema actresses? If a female Hollywood star only consents to a sex scene on the condition of receiving a paycheck for the role, does that mean they're being sexually assaulted when they perform a scene in which they're kissed/touched sexually? Does this mean male Hollywood actors who partake in these scenes are sexual assaulters?

...Surely not! But again, if all prostitution automatically equals rape, then how and where do we draw the line?

Not sure I follow your logical gymnastics here.

If you're having sex with women you either suspect or know aren't enjoying it, what does that make you?

It’s ok though ‘cos women don’t have the same motivations as actual real humans innit?

Again, not sure how you’ve made this logical leap?

@Laidbackguy
What makes all sex transactional, in your opinion?

You are clearly having shit sex 🤣

There's really nothing more to add to that perfect response.

Because typically a man has to do something for her to feel he should be rewarded with it?

Because typically a man has to do something for her to feel he should be rewarded with it?

Ughhh.. you're one of those.

One of the pitfalls of being a heterosexual male unfortunately.

Can you explain further? Do you not believe that women can enjoy sex, rather than them using it as a " reward" for men?

Some high end stars who have a career and call the shots, get well paid - that’s not rape imo.

But many are forced in to it, get raped, abused, beaten, are on drugs, no money, have pimps.

I mean, how many women love it, live well?

If only chappy could empathise with the half of the human species who have the kind of body he finds sexually attractive

if only he could think about how to give pleasure and take pleasure from mutual satisfaction

if only they were real people with the feelings and motivations that real humans have because that would mean he could form healthy, mutually supportive, happy relationships with them

sadly due to women not being actual people all of this is impossible

sad times

@Laidbackguy let me help you! You’ve got the words reciprocal, and transactional confused. Hope that helps!!

Quite. Goes along with my theory that good men should try very hard to fix shit. Because I would have had a significant amount more relationship-free sex in my twenties (and afterwards) if it had been:

Safe
Guaranteed that the man would at least try to make it good
Not judged.

Men could have more sex with more willing women if they got better at it and fixed the unsafe men. Try harder.

I was going to post something along those lines, but you put it much more succintly.

I like sex. I always have. The more the better. But my DH died five months ago and now there is no sex. I remember the last time we went to bed, a few days before he had a cardiac arrest, and I miss the sex as much as I miss him. Somehow this never comes up in discussions about grief. Perhaps it's a taboo?

I have never had transactional sex in my life, btw. I rather thought that was called being prostituted.

I think Laidback's experience is that the women he has sex with never seem to enjoy it, or be that enthusiastic about doing it again. His extremely logical mind has concluded that women therefore don't enjoy sex and only do it grudgingly when they want to get something from men. I don't think there is much to be gained from arguing with him on the matter.

I am really sorry about your husband.💐

A transaction is an exchange of goods for services. If both people want sex, for whatever reason, and are able to freely consent, it is not a transaction.

Clearly that's what's been happening to you, so you presume it's happening to other men. It should tell you something about what kind of partner you are. Consider stepping up your game.

By "do something" for the woman do you mean be civil and actually talk to her? 😄

My condolences on your terrible loss.

Scads of women are't throwing themselves at him and glowing with ecstasy at thirty seconds of inept thrusting, which he has every right to expect them to do. The poor lamb.

Bullshit. Couples in healthy relationships agree on it mutually, and if one of them does not want it at that particular time, they wait until it can be mutually enjoyable.

I'm getting incel vibes from your posts.

It's definitely heading in that direction

I almost feel sorry for you. That really isn't how it works.