Tommy Robinson and Let Women Speak

[eatfigs]

I've only read about this on Twitter so there's a chance this is being taken out of context, but it looks like Let Women Speak were part of Tommy Robinson's rally in London this past weekend:

https://x.com/shularises/status/1797585248580186511

https://x.com/GappyTales/status/1797611080212205988

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1796931835823362392

This doesn't sit right with me at all. I've been to LWS events and thought I knew what they were about. I've argued against the guilt-by-association tactics that some activists use against LWS when male intruders have turned up to the events, like the neo-Nazis in Melbourne.

But here we see the opposite, LWS deliberately attending far-right fascist marches. This seems inexcusable to me.

Really confused of why you're advocating people listening to him, for what actual purpose?

Not listen to TR. Listen to people who might be listening to him, to find out why they feel so politically disaffected, and what can be done about that.

To better understand.

Not inevitably, or all countries would have greater immigration than emigration (which is obviously impossible).

To better understand what though?
TR has aired his views for years at rallies and been platformed on TV, radio etc so it's not a mystery what he thinks or why. Do you think anyone is going to change him? Of course they won't. He makes his bread and butter off of it. It's not as if TR supporters make up a massive part of the electorate either so I'm not sure why anyone needs to waste time on them trying to change them or why you're advocating on a feminist board for women to waste their time listening to him.

No one is trying to change or have sympathy for TR but don't you think it a good idea to reflect and think about why people choose to attend these marches. Believe it or not the people there were not all far right proud boy supporters. I wasn't there but have heard radio phone ins and read reports etc. If they are saying they feel un heard in society then the job of main stream politicians is to listen and not write people off as bigots without having any understanding of the issues affecting them.

@Smoothiesaresoups Labour will probably get in at the next election here in the UK but France very nearly elected Marine le Pen and the AfD is gaining ground with younger voters in Germany.
We've got that volatile combination of challenging financial conditions and concern about high levels of immigration.

I'd suggest that just writing people off as far-right or fascist is exactly what won't help.

I'd say they agree with the kind of racist sentiments TR spouts and/or a large majority of them just enjoy acting like hooligans. I don't think there's any deep mystery to be uncovered. If they feel politically disaffected maybe it's because they don't have any major party with a leader shouting "who the fuck is Allah" for example 🤷🏻‍♀️ who knows, but I still don't get why we should be so interested to listen to them.

I was replying to a poster who suggested we need to listen to him to change him.

And no, not really. From what I've seen these marches aren't huge and the behaviour at then often isn't that of people wanting to enact any political change. A lot of them seem to descend into drunken brawling from what I've seen. They're entitled to their free speech and expression but I don't think feminists in particular are in dire need of their input.

And yet a black lesbian wrapped in a Jamaican flag got through the whole thing with no abuse or harassment or violence.

I'm not advocating for women to listen to him.

I'm wondering why the fuck other posters are giving women who do want to find out more about what him and his apparently like minded followers are up to and why such a hard time?

It's like when Adam witters on about wether a piece of information came out of Tufton Street or when posters turn up to go Urghhhhhh I'm not reading that it's from the Daily Mail.

It's so bloody blinkered.

I think TR is very comfortable with the label far right. It's not something that he's being unfairly written off as.
I'd say if we are worried about rising support.of far right groups that's exactly why we shouldn't be platforming them when discussing issues where we don't need their support i.e. feminism.

Listen to TR, don't listen. I don't really care. But he's listening and changing/adapting his message. I believe that's what populist do. If there's no-one else listening to concerns that people believe are legitimate or if they're just dismissed by the oh so pure as bigots what's going to happen. Where will they go if they feel unlistened to by the approved-stream. They're not going to disappear. As Brexit, as Trump demonstrate these people have votes too.

"Not listen to TR. Listen to people who might be listening to him, to find out why they feel so politically disaffected, and what can be done about that."

Exactly.

Shame is a really poor method of changing thinking and behaviour, often serving to entrench and further polarise.

But what don't you know about him?
He's got a long history of being a member of far right, white nationalist groups and a criminal. His supporters think he's a great guy. What else do you wanna know? Do you think feminism needs their support? It seems to have coped without converting the far right so far.

And please stop trying to police people Cassie

🚨

I'm interested in the discussion about the regurgitation of pre chewed ideas that goes on.

When you try to find out what the regurgitater is basing their statements on there is nothing, because it's just repetition.

That's the impression we are given and yes there will have been elements of drunken behaviour and racist chants but there were also NHS and emergency service workers, off duty officers, education staff, civil servants, bankers, bus drivers, retail workers. And I believe there was only a handful of arrests made so hardly a crowd of violence seeking thugs. I would post a link to an interview of someone who was there but I know i would be accused of supporting TR and I don't!

Those are professionals. They don't learn about them by rocking up at their rallies and waving flags for them.

Professionals have training and safeguarding procedures to stop them being sucked in by manipulators. Its not at all equivalent to the ordinary person in the street.

I'd happily read or listen to a professional take on Tommy Robinsons world view. I just am not going any where near the man himself.

Again though, it's not a large amount of people. They're not that politically significant. What's the eagerness for feminists to be exploring this particular group of people is all I'm asking? The original post I was replying to said it was to change them and I don't think that's possible as you won't change TR and that's who the majority of them show up for.

Whatever. If you do think it's useful to fill up a thread about Tommy Robinsons potential influence on GC feminism with irrelevant stuff about Gordon Brown from 14 years ago, I can't stop you. Like I said, I understand why that's a much more comfortable topic for some. Almost like a comfort blanket.

I have no idea what you mean. I didn't bring up or discuss the Gordon Brown fuck-up. I'm interested in the broader patterns.

I'm guessing you probably do intend to be so patronising.

Where are you getting this Jamaican flag thing from? I've only seen the cross of St George and the union jack picture. Can you post your source please?

I can only see the Union Flag here (as Aja is not on a ship it is not a Union Jack).

ETA: hit post too soon, pic in next post...

Crazy that we're at this point where GC feminists on this board are advocating listening to the likes of TR.

Whenever this crops up I just take it for exactly what it is - a demand that says:

"You should be more open-minded about becoming close-minded'

Here: