Tommy Robinson and Let Women Speak

[eatfigs]

I've only read about this on Twitter so there's a chance this is being taken out of context, but it looks like Let Women Speak were part of Tommy Robinson's rally in London this past weekend:

https://x.com/shularises/status/1797585248580186511

https://x.com/GappyTales/status/1797611080212205988

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1796931835823362392

This doesn't sit right with me at all. I've been to LWS events and thought I knew what they were about. I've argued against the guilt-by-association tactics that some activists use against LWS when male intruders have turned up to the events, like the neo-Nazis in Melbourne.

But here we see the opposite, LWS deliberately attending far-right fascist marches. This seems inexcusable to me.

I know all about the history. My socialist uncle was one of the original skinheads and was in an article about it in Rolling Stone magazine in 1969.

I thought your first post mentioning it came across as a bit classist but I take that back after reading your latest post.

My partner and I are big football fans and he wears Fred Perry, Stone Island, Ralph Lauren etc and his views couldn't be further away from the likes of TR so it does annoy me when people sneer about people wearing certain clothes.

Indeed. My uncle was a skinhead when it was part of the ska scene and was instrumental in me getting my first pair of DMs my mum thought they were for thugs.
Not classist myself. Thugs can be from any class for example. I'd happily call the Bullingdon Club out for being the thugs that they are for instance.
Just as I will call out TR for being a racist thug.
I just think we'd be in a better position if we're able to call out bigotry and reflect. We all have unconscious bias for instance. But, I fully agreed with Gordon Brown. And TR's March was completely a bigoted event. But, I'm not GC in the way you mean it on here.

My brother flipped between being a mod or a skinhead in the late 70s early 80s. I also wore some of the clothes and love the music. Still have a ska playlist.

My feelings on the March is that there were definitely a lot of racistss there but I really don't think that DJ Lippy or Aja are racist. And as AlisonDonut pointed out, Aja didn't receive any abuse from other marchers whilst there so I do believe it was about the 2 tier policing system.

There a thread about Sinead Watson being arrested on here at the moment which demonstrates that system perfectly for me.

I also think that some of the people attacking Aja are doing it for classist reasons.

But, I'm not GC in the way you mean it on here

could you say what it means on here

i use it in its original meaning of being critical of gender stereotypes

I'll disagree with two tier. There are different methods for different reasons and there's no clear political position from the Met on this (and yes they do go over the top on occasion). It's usually related to numbers as police are outnumbered. So they tend to gather evidence unless something kicks off (it usually does on TR marches due to alcohol and drugs).
I am genuinely interested in where people's lines are though. I do not agree with this board on trans issues. At all. But I really do not understand how under any circumstances a self-defined feminist can stand alongside someone convicted for VAWG who has not repudiated that behaviour. So where is the line for people personally here? Or is everyone an ally if they agree with you on this.

That's how I use it, but I think that trans women are women. That's where the difference comes. I see them as different issues. Actually off to explore Renaissance gender assumptions today in Paradise Lost. Milton describes Adam as 'domestic' and 'mild' before the Fall. Eve is anything but.

i use it in its original meaning of being critical of gender stereotypes

That's how I use it, but I think that trans women are women.

Talk about an oxymoron.

grammar

i love paradise lost

Personally I don't buy into this ally business. Most people agree that humans can't change sex and believe that there are good reasons for females to retain single sex spaces. They come from all walks of life and the reasons will differ across the board.
I don't know why they were there apart from handing out leaflets but I don't believe that being in the same place means you align with them.

Differences of opinion are allowed on this board I believe. And if you think all trans women are hyper feminine at all times then you haven't met many.

What is it exactly that makes them women then?

I think it's great that there are differences of opinion. I have issue with people coming on and calling us bigots etc without any coherent argument about why TWAW. Not accusing you of that by the way.

But this thread shows that difference of opinion is not allowed by some.

Of course you’re allowed your opinion! I didn’t say you weren’t! I just pointed out your statement is oxymoronic.

How are you defining “woman” if you think transwomen are women and it’s not based on stereotypes?

Most people here are all too aware that most so-called "transwomen" behave like typical males.

And if you think all trans women are hyper feminine at all times then you haven't met many.

I have. There was a spate of middle aged straight men transitioning in the alt music scene I used to be part of.
What they had in common was unhappiness and I suspect felt on at least some level that they hadn't been successful as men.

There was nothing about them that made me think they were women, at all.

I am laughing at any 'trans woman' being 'hyper feminine'.

And who the fuck has said that? Another fake allegation with no substance.
Post who said it and the source for us all to see.

Hint: Makey-up names from someone calling himself PinkTits in a fuzzy screen shot don't really count as evidence.

What, in your opinion, distinguishes a "transwoman" from other men?

How does a man change sex and become a woman?

You say that your belief isn't based on stereotypes, so what is it based on?

Or is it purely faith based in the way that some people say that they know that God exists?

Maybe it was a typo and they meant to say hyper masculine.

Thank you for the meme. I won't be using it. I don't think people speaking up for Aja are fascists. The only people in this I think are fascists are Tommy Robinson and the people directly supporting his cause (donating, organising events etc).

People attending are standing with fascists and enabling fascism to flourish in our country.

Like I feel about you, I am similarly disappointed in her for not acknowledging a reasonable concern, not that my thoughts are relevant. It is interesting the far right brainwashing that's clearly happening to people.

Let's hope it is my "ideological purity" that's the problem and not, as I fear, that we are in a 1930s Europe situation heading for a human catastrophe.

She got a non-apology apology for if she was hurt by misinterpreting what Pesutto said 😂

It has never been my intention to convey that I believed Ms Keen and Ms Jones to be Neo-Nazis, or that they were members of Neo-Nazi groups. As far as my comments may have been misunderstood as conveying that I believed this to be the case, I apologise for any hurt, distress or harm that has occurred.

He also said she had settled with him and apologised so I think it was a case of neither "won" and neither wanted to keep spending money to go to court.

As KJK bought the action I assume she knew her chances in court were not nailed on.

And in his statement he says what I think too:
I also believe that all public figures have a responsibility to denounce such extremism in all its forms. I do not believe that it is appropriate to knowingly associate or share platforms with individuals who hold or express these extremist views. I also believe that there is no room to be blithe or cavalier in the face of Neo-Nazism.

Morning, Cassie.

I think you have misunderstood my post. I was doing an impression of the general attitude I see from TRA. Them yelling ''BIGOT. TERF'' at every little thing.