Tommy Robinson and Let Women Speak

[eatfigs]

I've only read about this on Twitter so there's a chance this is being taken out of context, but it looks like Let Women Speak were part of Tommy Robinson's rally in London this past weekend:

https://x.com/shularises/status/1797585248580186511

https://x.com/GappyTales/status/1797611080212205988

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1796931835823362392

This doesn't sit right with me at all. I've been to LWS events and thought I knew what they were about. I've argued against the guilt-by-association tactics that some activists use against LWS when male intruders have turned up to the events, like the neo-Nazis in Melbourne.

But here we see the opposite, LWS deliberately attending far-right fascist marches. This seems inexcusable to me.

I linked the exact image and text I had a problem with upthread. The image and text were a reference to her attendance at the march, as per the comment on the image. The image looks to me to be a cross of St George behind her and a union jack round her neck.

I'm not a flag worshipper but have no issue with people being proud of their country. Its using it at the TR march that is what causes concern for me.

https://www.bigissue.com/news/politics/st-georges-day-englishness-national-identity-culture-wars/

The St George’s Cross is not, of course, an apolitical symbol. The flag has been used by the extreme fringe, adorning the paraphernalia of the English Defence League and the British National Party. The Muslim Council of Britain has previously lamented the flag’s use as a “symbol of triumphalism and division”.

The English Defence League (EDL) was founded by TR.

So 2 explanations for her using that imagery:

1. she is naive and didn't realise what it would represent. Kind of hard to believe when she was at a far right rally with flag waving neo nazi loons
2. she knew it would go down well and wanted to join in. E.g. standing with neo nazi loons.

It is disingenuous to keep separating the flag from the rally and asking why I have a problem with the flag. Its also very transparent as a minimisation tactic.

Have you got the list of everything corrupted @Grammarnut ?

You were adamant yesterday that everything is corrupted so we really would like to see it.

Thanks in advance.

Oops @GrammarTeacher not nut

No they weren't. They were about "the cult".

I don't want to derail the thread and similarly CBA to start a new thread to get kicked for stating the bleeding obvious, but handing out leaflets suggesting a certain type of person is part of a child abusing cult at a far right rally is irresponsible in the extreme. Many extremely violent and dangerous men are far right members.

I don't disagree with his statement there, but has Gordon Brown and the left learned anything about respecting peoples genuine concerns? Gordon Brown who referred to a woman he had a conversation with as 'some bigoted woman' . His mask slipped well and truly and we only witnessed it due to his mic fail. And Labour wondered why so many faithful deserted them.

@hellointernet12 It was such an excellent and convincing impersonation that I was sooo triggered by those uncouth words. My apologies, and for my part I will try and be more couth in future.

What has Gordon Brown got to do with anything related to this? Genuinely? That was 14 years ago!!

Also people don't go on far right marches because of what Gordon Brown said. Honestly. I know it's the left that get called snowflakes ❄️, but this sort of thing makes it look like the far right have very fragile egos. Reminds me of when I had toddlers. "Gordon called me a meany so I ripped up his drawing AND I DON'T CARE Gordon is smelly"

If you don't disagree with his statement, maybe you can see why some feminists have problems with LWS being represented at the TR rally, and then the support of LWS leadership and other high profile feminists for that happening.

It has been really damaging, in my opinion.

Also today KJK posted this.

Populism is what got Hitler into power. Its not a positive thing. Its an approach that tells people what they want to hear and finds a group to scapegoat when things go wrong.

In the 1930s that group was Jews.
For today's populists it appears to be Muslims.

Populism is dangerous, its never delivered anything, and ostriching about KJK because she was instrumental at getting womens sex based rights on the table is enabling it to spread.

www.history.co.uk/article/rise-of-the-right-are-we-returning-to-the-populism-of-the-1930s

The populism of FDR is what led to a constitutional change to only allow two terms to be served as US President, so to automatically imply it only brings about bad things is, again, very narrow minded.

😂

Yes. The populism of Hitler also had a positive impact on democracy and an (apparently temporary) impact on people's awareness of the dangers of fascism, which was good.

😂

No, I mean populism brought about FDR. Was he a bad president?

Your point is that populism can be a good thing because sometimes it results in controls against populism? Isn't that like saying getting burnt is a good thing because you learn not to burn yourself?

See above. FDR drew on populism as the President of the common man in the Depression era. He wasn’t a bad outcome. So why is populism seen as automatically bad in Cassie’s eyes?

No flipping idea. I'm not American and don't follow historic American politics.

I'm taking it on your authority that he was populist at all tbh

"We want single sex spaces. "

"You can't have them because that idea is populist and that means you're just like Hitler."

Did you look at the screenshot or are you just strawmanning me for the lolz?

Ok so your automatic response “populism bad” hasn’t considered situations in history that might be considered to give a different view of that. You’ve just knee jerked your reaction without any thoughtful consideration. Like the rest of the thread.

So what I've learnt from this thread:

• TR rallies are free speech and we should stand up for people's rights to support him even though he's a racist misogynist
• calling LGBTQ people "a cult" at a far right rally is an effective way to safeguard children
• populism is a good thing because it gave us FDR.

Continues to be illuminating. Kind of glad I came back

No. I've read and listened to political experts I trust talking about populism.

I suspect, based on your weasel words upthread, that FDR wasn't a populist but copied some elements of populist language to get elected. Like I said, I know little about historic US politics. Interesting you were so quick with a counter example though. It suggests this isn't your first rodeo round defending populism.

It actually IS my first time, and I am not defending populism. It took me less than a minute to consider an historical example of someone who some people believe used populism tactics and was an overall positive.

What I am countering is your insistence that everything is completely black and white. You’re incredibly rigid with your thinking and you’re incredibly critical who doesn’t adhere to your same rigid thinking.

Earlier I posted

''''Kellie Jay-Keen is regularly described as a nazi by the other side. They have it in their heads now that 'let women speak' is a nazi movement. KJK has said things which at best you could describe as careless and flippant but at worst do actually make her look like a nazi. Key example that springs to mind is footage of her saying ''Facism is the new word for legend''. It makes me hesitant to attend one of her events which is a shame because I agree with 85% of what she says.''

I just found out she said this in response to TRA's chanting ''Posie Parker's a fascist''.

So this is something that was taken out of context and presented as evidence she is a fascist when really she was making a joke about the chant the TRAs were making. In the video where I originally saw her say this, you could not hear the TRA's chant. Very disingenuous. In addition they often claim she used a photograph of a barbie with a swazsticker as a profile picture. I cannot find actual evidence of this anywhere.

What Is Populism? | History - YouTube

Someone earlier brought up Gordon Brown. It's relevant as this attitude from the left is as present today as it was in 2010. It is looking likely that Labour will be in government this year and Gordon Brown is likely to be part of this government. It's not just his opinion though, I referred to him as I know how much you rely on evidence and his views were recorded for all to hear. Back in 2010 to speak of immigration concerns and controls often meant being labeled as a bigot, uncaring, right wing, fascist. Now today everyone is speaking openly about it and debating which is the grown up way. There are parallels with how gender ideology has been forced upon people and those who objected were shut down with no debate.

Interesting response from Winston Marshall on the 'Is populism a threat to democacy debate' at thwe Oxford Union:

Nancy Pelosi didn't like it though.