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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

KJK is standing against Lloyd Russell-Mole in the General Election

1000 replies

BoreOfWhabylon · 23/05/2024 14:20

Grin https://www.youtube.com/live/vHudcvW0bSQ?si=kj-pX6z_ioL6l3nj

Before you continue to YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/live/vHudcvW0bSQ?si=kj-pX6z_ioL6l3nj

OP posts:
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42
RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 19:51

Datun · 02/06/2024 19:14

Adam, we are now coming to the crux of this.

If you feel that labour are going to reassure women about exactly what a woman is and where men with a GRC are allowed, we are all going to find that out in the next few weeks.

Personally, I can't wait for them to bring it on.

You?

Adam is not bothered whether they do or not because this is not an issue for Adam. Adam thinks that everyone should just vote Labour whatever they say/don't say/do/don't do.

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 19:54

RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 19:51

Adam is not bothered whether they do or not because this is not an issue for Adam. Adam thinks that everyone should just vote Labour whatever they say/don't say/do/don't do.

Once again. I don't care who you vote for. I object to the misrepresentation of Labour's position and the ongoing agenda some posters seem to have to blame "the Left" for all the ills of the country when we have had a right wing government for 14 years.

illinivich · 02/06/2024 19:56

Ive always suspected there were labour faithfuls who broadly agree with trans ideology, but either used GC as a way to attack tories, or think conservatives implement the ideology incorrectly. They'll be the ones claiming everything is now ok even though safeguarding issues will still occur. Theyll say now self id isnt on the cards and PB are banned, any issues are insignificant.

The main parties might want to wave the problems away as culture wars but that isnt going to make it go away. They are going to have to make decisions once scandals occur whether they want to or not.

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 19:57

I'm also still entirely baffled why KJK picked one of the most pro-woman MPs to debate. I guess we'll see what happens, my prediction is a damp squib followed by KJK claiming "I never lose" when JPs vote share goes down due to Labour's position on Gaza. A position paradoxically that KJK seems to think is not pro-Israel enough.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 19:58

It isn't misrepresentation though!

They have not been clear and unequivocal. They obviously include men with a GRC in their description of women, hence using safe spaces as the description, not single sex. And umming and ahhing over which spaces can possibly be limited to single sex instead of just spitting it out.

More fool anyone who thinks they're trustworthy on this issue, frankly.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 19:59

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 19:57

I'm also still entirely baffled why KJK picked one of the most pro-woman MPs to debate. I guess we'll see what happens, my prediction is a damp squib followed by KJK claiming "I never lose" when JPs vote share goes down due to Labour's position on Gaza. A position paradoxically that KJK seems to think is not pro-Israel enough.

Already been explained upthread.

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:00

Not really Confused

EasternStandard · 02/06/2024 20:00

The GRA is a Labour creation so we’re here at all due to that legislation

And they’re about to do what looks like Self ID via GP or medic

Plus no clarification of where or how men with GRCs can have access

At least the Cass Review is in place and might protect children a bit more before they get in

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 20:00

illinivich · 02/06/2024 19:56

Ive always suspected there were labour faithfuls who broadly agree with trans ideology, but either used GC as a way to attack tories, or think conservatives implement the ideology incorrectly. They'll be the ones claiming everything is now ok even though safeguarding issues will still occur. Theyll say now self id isnt on the cards and PB are banned, any issues are insignificant.

The main parties might want to wave the problems away as culture wars but that isnt going to make it go away. They are going to have to make decisions once scandals occur whether they want to or not.

PBs are banned for three months. The incoming government needs to
make the legislation permanent. Which Labour haven't said they'll do. They've had days to do it, but haven't. So clearly they won't.

RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 20:02

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 19:42

I don't think any of the "serious" parties want to touch it. My prediction is if any of the bigger parties say they will repeal the GRA it will be Reform - and they are lunatics who promise the moon on a stick (zero waiting lists in the NHS, zero net migration AND lower taxes).

I think Labour will stick to the statement from last year and make reassuring noises about the GRA not overriding the EA and ensuring that service providers understand their obligations under the EA.

I think the Tories will either say nothing or make some kind of non-commitment to "consider" it. Which they've been doing for 18 months.

So for me repealing the GRA/ some males recognised as legally female is a non starter.

If some males can be recognised as legally female it depends when and where exemptions are applied and Labour at least are openly talking about the need to do that.

I know you don't agree. What I object to is this idea "the Left" will somehow be worse for women than "the Right" on the basis of nothing at all.

That is because you clearly do not understand the fundamental issues which underlie the trans agenda. You also cannot seem to operate or think outside of the binary of Left and Right. When people show anger towards Labour and say they won't be voting for them, or will spoil their ballot ( most of us) - you just revert to the assumption that everyone is automatically going to vote Conservative.

Many of us are done with rigid binary politics - for the reason many of us have inhabited Leftist positions for a long time - but have now moved beyond that.
Personally I'll never be able to vote Labour in my constituency so long as my current Labour MP is standing. If she is representative of Labour party policy and position it suggests that nothing has changed at all.......because she is an out and out TRA, and has refused to meet with her constituents on this issue.
Her performances on the Women and Equalities committe are pitiful.

As i mentioned before - all that seems to concern you is that people vote Labour - no matter what. But you must surely know that many people with actual Leftist values will not be voting Labour either - because Starmer is pure fudge on most issues - his main task is to get elected and he will duck and dive in order to achieve that.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 20:04

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:00

Not really Confused

Yes it has. I told you what KJK said in her broadcast the other day.

KJK is standing against Lloyd Russell-Mole in the General Election
BackToLurk · 02/06/2024 20:04

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 15:06

KJK said that, despite all JP says, she's never once come out in support of Rosie Duffield which KJK says speaks volumes about JP's integrity and credibility (paraphrasing).

I think she just wants to be able to get JP to come out and say that no women have a penis and no men should be in women's spaces (basically to agree with the PoW's 'manifesto').

Rosie considers Jess her friend & Jess has certainly said she doesn’t consider Rosie to be transphobic. https://www.gbnews.com/politics/labour-mp-shunned-by-starmer-after-being-jeered-for-standing-up-for-womens-rights-in-trans-debate-none-of-them-ask-me/426963

Labour MP shunned by Starmer after being jeered for standing up for women's rights in trans debate - 'None of them ask me!'

Rosie Duffield was asking a question about Nicola Sturgeon's controversial gender recognition reform bill

https://www.gbnews.com/politics/labour-mp-shunned-by-starmer-after-being-jeered-for-standing-up-for-womens-rights-in-trans-debate-none-of-them-ask-me/426963

EasternStandard · 02/06/2024 20:06

I don’t think it matters who is friends or whatever

The point is to expose the lack of coherence in the Labour proposals

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 20:07

BackToLurk · 02/06/2024 20:04

Rosie considers Jess her friend & Jess has certainly said she doesn’t consider Rosie to be transphobic. https://www.gbnews.com/politics/labour-mp-shunned-by-starmer-after-being-jeered-for-standing-up-for-womens-rights-in-trans-debate-none-of-them-ask-me/426963

Then whittered on about complex issues, debate etc. It certainly wasn't full, unadulterated, support. Very wishy washy in fact.

BackToLurk · 02/06/2024 20:10

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 20:07

Then whittered on about complex issues, debate etc. It certainly wasn't full, unadulterated, support. Very wishy washy in fact.

So we’ve gone from “she never supported her” to “she didn’t do it properly”. And still Rosie considers her a friend. She must be a right sap.

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:11

RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 20:02

That is because you clearly do not understand the fundamental issues which underlie the trans agenda. You also cannot seem to operate or think outside of the binary of Left and Right. When people show anger towards Labour and say they won't be voting for them, or will spoil their ballot ( most of us) - you just revert to the assumption that everyone is automatically going to vote Conservative.

Many of us are done with rigid binary politics - for the reason many of us have inhabited Leftist positions for a long time - but have now moved beyond that.
Personally I'll never be able to vote Labour in my constituency so long as my current Labour MP is standing. If she is representative of Labour party policy and position it suggests that nothing has changed at all.......because she is an out and out TRA, and has refused to meet with her constituents on this issue.
Her performances on the Women and Equalities committe are pitiful.

As i mentioned before - all that seems to concern you is that people vote Labour - no matter what. But you must surely know that many people with actual Leftist values will not be voting Labour either - because Starmer is pure fudge on most issues - his main task is to get elected and he will duck and dive in order to achieve that.

This is a long word salad post that does nothing but insult me.
I don't care who you vote for.
I do care that you wilfully misrepresent politicians and claim you speak for "all women" - those that disagree just being too stupid to understand, obviously.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 20:12

BackToLurk · 02/06/2024 20:10

So we’ve gone from “she never supported her” to “she didn’t do it properly”. And still Rosie considers her a friend. She must be a right sap.

Talk to KJK about it. I just told you what she said. I've not changed my position on anything, so there is fuck all point in raising it with me.

Give KJK a call when she's next on air, ask her about it!

RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 20:13

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 19:54

Once again. I don't care who you vote for. I object to the misrepresentation of Labour's position and the ongoing agenda some posters seem to have to blame "the Left" for all the ills of the country when we have had a right wing government for 14 years.

Except Labour's position is not clear - for the reason that they have not fundamentally re-assessed anything - other than massaging the message in order to get elected. If you cannot seee that then you have poor political acumen as far as I'm concerned; or more likely -the issue does not really concern you.

You cannot expect people to vote for people who show them contempt -and who until recently ( and still continue in some cases) to suggest they don't want women like them in the party. That they are hateful/dinosaurs/phobes/bigots and so on. Do you really think we might have so little self respect?

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 20:13

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:11

This is a long word salad post that does nothing but insult me.
I don't care who you vote for.
I do care that you wilfully misrepresent politicians and claim you speak for "all women" - those that disagree just being too stupid to understand, obviously.

She's never said she speaks for all women.

And there isn't any misrepresentation.

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:14

BackToLurk · 02/06/2024 20:10

So we’ve gone from “she never supported her” to “she didn’t do it properly”. And still Rosie considers her a friend. She must be a right sap.

Noone knows Rosie Duffield's position better than the GC cohort on MN. Not even Rosie Duffield.
God forbid a woman can state her own opinion. I'd be very frustrated at constantly being spoken for as if I were a child, if I were RD.

EasternStandard · 02/06/2024 20:14

RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 20:13

Except Labour's position is not clear - for the reason that they have not fundamentally re-assessed anything - other than massaging the message in order to get elected. If you cannot seee that then you have poor political acumen as far as I'm concerned; or more likely -the issue does not really concern you.

You cannot expect people to vote for people who show them contempt -and who until recently ( and still continue in some cases) to suggest they don't want women like them in the party. That they are hateful/dinosaurs/phobes/bigots and so on. Do you really think we might have so little self respect?

@RebelliousCow this won’t be understood but I get your frustration

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:15

NoWordForFluffy · 02/06/2024 20:04

Yes it has. I told you what KJK said in her broadcast the other day.

Strangely your opinion isn't the final word on the discussion. I listened to her broadcast, and it makes no sense.

RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 20:15

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:11

This is a long word salad post that does nothing but insult me.
I don't care who you vote for.
I do care that you wilfully misrepresent politicians and claim you speak for "all women" - those that disagree just being too stupid to understand, obviously.

It is not a "word salad" - it was a, clearly, futile attempt to get you to understand other people's perspectives and motives for action.

You know nothing of my MP - so how do you know what is being "misrepresented" or not? You've not been involved in this issue in the way that many others have -you have no real clue.

VinnieVanDog · 02/06/2024 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AdamRyan · 02/06/2024 20:17

RebelliousCow · 02/06/2024 20:13

Except Labour's position is not clear - for the reason that they have not fundamentally re-assessed anything - other than massaging the message in order to get elected. If you cannot seee that then you have poor political acumen as far as I'm concerned; or more likely -the issue does not really concern you.

You cannot expect people to vote for people who show them contempt -and who until recently ( and still continue in some cases) to suggest they don't want women like them in the party. That they are hateful/dinosaurs/phobes/bigots and so on. Do you really think we might have so little self respect?

Vote for who you like.
There is zero chance of the GRA being repealed so if you vote on that basis, you are being sold a pup.

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