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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reports Roz Adams successful in her action against Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre

503 replies

LargeSquareRock · 19/05/2024 23:09

https://x.com/journalismseen/status/1792305714595012730?s=46&t=f8U9xaap9RM6pcBCdpsFIA

Excellent news and looking forward to seeing the judgement.

x.com

https://x.com/journalismseen/status/1792305714595012730?s=46&t=f8U9xaap9RM6pcBCdpsFIA

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57
Motnight · 20/05/2024 07:51

Thank you Roz.

mach2 · 20/05/2024 07:54

Mmmnotsure · 19/05/2024 23:26

From Julie Bindel:

Mridul Wadhwa is going to have to reframe his trauma

😆😆😆😆😆

Sloejelly · 20/05/2024 08:02

Ramblingnamechanger · 20/05/2024 07:51

I am worried that the tribunal said that it was necessary to use people’s preferred pronouns in a work situation… extended this would also mean in court which is very relevant when women are obliged to call there rapist she. And MW was referred to as she throughout the hearings. Still a lie.

Yes that is a concern, especially in this situation where this means raped women will continue to be gaslit by counsellors referring to men as ‘she’.

Sloejelly · 20/05/2024 08:04

MurielThrockmorton · 20/05/2024 06:29

Great news! I wonder whether there's anything in there that will help Sarah in Brighton. Though I presume (but not certain) that it's not at a level to be binding on other decisions. Will read the whole thing later.

Non-binding at this level, but also I don’t think Scottish courts bind English ones or vice versa, though they are persuasive.

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 20/05/2024 08:07

Chrysanthemum5 · 20/05/2024 07:02

And not on the BBC website even the section on news from Scotland - but they do find space to tell us Castlemilk has a milk shortage in some shops

At this point, BBC News has damaged its reputation so deeply, I wouldn't trust it to tell me the time.

Well done, Roz. A victory for sanity.

Sloejelly · 20/05/2024 08:10

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 20/05/2024 08:07

At this point, BBC News has damaged its reputation so deeply, I wouldn't trust it to tell me the time.

Well done, Roz. A victory for sanity.

The BBC will tell us another drag story instead.

guinnessguzzler · 20/05/2024 08:15

Fantastic to see this result. Although it would have been astounding had it gone any other way. The whole thing was completely mismanaged and frankly was entirely predictable as soon as MW was appointed.

It is obvious from the way MW conducts MWself that MW is entirely unsuitable for the role of charity CEO, regardless of the charity. All ego and bluster (a number of public appearances and interviews very much focused on the self), no sticking power and too interested in personal gain (left previous CEO role in Falkirk after 3 years when the Edinburgh job came up), not willing to take responsibility (didn't appear in court), not willing to listen to or consider others views (reframe their trauma), nevermind not actually meeting the requirements for this particular role as it was advertised as being for women only as a genuine occupational requirement. This result further proves that MW is entirely unsuitable as it shows a complete lack of judgement, both in terms of managing the process and in allowing this to go to tribunal. It is genuinely embarrassing for the organisation and suggests significant governance issues. I hope the Regulator (OSCR) will be paying close attention to what they do next.

I have commented previously on the lack of coverage of this case in Third Force News, the leading third sector publication in Scotland. I will be watching closely this week to see if they now cover it and, if so, how. It is such an important case for everyone to be aware of.

HandsomeCleverandRich · 20/05/2024 08:19

Just posted on the other thread - here's a share link for the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5dc99960-be22-448d-ae42-371a058dce7f?shareToken=70003b3d6b2370bda226d6abc40cce54

Well done Roz and everyone involved.

Rexsealist · 20/05/2024 08:21

ValueAddedTaxonomy · 20/05/2024 07:49

Haven't finished reading the judgement yet, but one thing that I found striking was Roz Adams' training in non-violent communication and her very coherently expressed desire to find a way of talking about the issues that was genuinely respectful to all parties/positions and genuinely constructive.

She wasn't simply trying to find a way to air and accommodate 'gender critical beliefs', she was offering to be part of a wider and more deeply humane conversation in which everyone would feel more deeply accommodated and respected - on the basis of having discussed things more honestly and intelligently.

It struck me that for people with trans identities it must be exhausting to feel (or be told) that your acceptance in an organisation has to be founded on suppression, control and dishonesty. Roz was literally offering a way past that, and hoping to bring her specialist training to bear in order to help facilitate mutual understanding.

She had been able and enthusiatic in her support of trans people in portions of her career, her motivation was plainly non-transphobic, and she had specialist skills that would have enabled her to be part of a solution, and yet still she was hounded. It is hard to thik of a clearer illustration of the fact that, for some individuals, there is simply NO interest in anything other than total capitulation to a situation in which there is forced performative validation of an extreme TWAW position.

I know Roz and this is such a brilliant summing up of her, and a great reflection of the madness of the whole sorry situation. There is NO room for any deviation from the TWAW mantra.

determinedtomakethiswork · 20/05/2024 08:22

Absolutely brilliant news.

PronounssheRa · 20/05/2024 08:23

I've just looked at the BBC website, obviously the main headlines are about the helicopter crash in Iran and the infected blood scandal.

But the local pages we have gems such as '50 year old crisp packet found' and 'Rescue team plans extension after outgrowing base' and 'Obese cat loses more than half her bodyweight'

Persianpuss · 20/05/2024 08:24

I suppose it takes a long time to try to "reframe" the judgment to make it sound less damning of gender ideology...

lcakethereforeIam · 20/05/2024 08:26

Well done Roz, congratulations and I'm so sorry you've been put through this.

I bet Julie Bindel has been gagging to send that tweet 😁

borntobequiet · 20/05/2024 08:32

Very good news.

Sloejelly · 20/05/2024 08:38

Remember, these are the organisations that the Scottish Government have been listening to.

nauticant · 20/05/2024 08:44

The judgment was quick in coming. They're often arriving 3-6 months after the hearing closes but that was 1 and a half months. I'm wondering the relative speed was to do with the nearly 3 month gap between the bulk of the hearing and closing submissions.

DerekFaker · 20/05/2024 08:46

"Edinburgh Rape Crisis Center just posted this 7 minutes ago on their IG page. Not addressing they lost the employment tribunal brought against them on ALL COUNTS.

Mridul Wadhwa needs to be discharged immediately."

https://twitter.com/IsleLesbos/status/1792438646047482283?t=cmu5-g-ZyLL8pXKvBl9iFw&s=19

Reports Roz Adams successful in her action against Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre
Reports Roz Adams successful in her action against Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre
RainWithSunnySpells · 20/05/2024 08:47

The last two paragraphs from The Critic article (my bold).

'The version of gender identity theory embraced by ERCC (described by the Tribunal as “dogmatic”, “extreme”, and “hardline”) is one that is not compatible with the requirements of tolerance. A central feature of this worldview is that dissent is transphobic and must be quashed. The Tribunal itself found that Mridul Wadhwa believed that all sex realist views were transphobic and that firing employees with those views was important for achieving inclusivity. Those beliefs are not compatible with tolerance and, in this extreme form, may not even be worthy of protection under the Equality Act. It is in no way incumbent upon a court or tribunal to remain neutral between those beliefs and the beliefs of Roz Adams, described by the Tribunal as “generally trans positive but also sex realist”.

Tolerance of different world-views is important but it cannot require a court or tribunal to purport to neutrality between sex realism and gender identity theory in contexts when our law requires one to notice and respect the reality of sex. This tribunal clearly did take a side. It followed the law and came down on the side of the “careful, credible and reliable witness” who was just trying to do her job by putting the rights of rape victims at the heart of her work. An extreme worldview that includes the belief that people like Roz Adams should be hounded out of employment in the name of inclusivity is not compatible with the tolerance required of our law.'

lcakethereforeIam · 20/05/2024 08:48

I'm quoting this from the Times article (it was in the Scotland section of the online edition)

Sandy Brindley, chief executive of Rape Crisis Scotland, said: “An independent review into the practices and procedures at Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre has been commissioned. We are also working with Rape Crisis England and Wales on a planned review and refresh of the national service standards.”

I'll be interested in the outcomes of both reviews.

User2460177 · 20/05/2024 08:51

This is a fantastic result - well done Roz

anyolddinosaur · 20/05/2024 08:56

lcakethereforeIam · 20/05/2024 08:48

I'm quoting this from the Times article (it was in the Scotland section of the online edition)

Sandy Brindley, chief executive of Rape Crisis Scotland, said: “An independent review into the practices and procedures at Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre has been commissioned. We are also working with Rape Crisis England and Wales on a planned review and refresh of the national service standards.”

I'll be interested in the outcomes of both reviews.

Not letting me tag Icake.. so have to quote

Sounds good but who is conducting the "independent" review? In effect they have had a review - from the judges - and it's damning. Further delay is unnecessary.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/05/2024 08:57

The case was made brilliantly in court by Roz's barrister Naomi Cunningham, also. TRAs tend to sneer at her, I imagine this will wipe the smile off their faces.

AlisonDonut · 20/05/2024 08:58

Sloejelly · 20/05/2024 08:10

The BBC will tell us another drag story instead.

The BBC in the very early hours must have through 'Right do we report on the Scottish Greens putting this erm lovely lady up, do we report on Roz Adams' win against ERCC or what. Someone, throw something up the preverbial flagpole and lets see if it flies'.
'Well I do have interesting news. Jimmy Tarbuck is still alive, I saw him in Waitrose last week.'
'Make that call'.

tongsatdawn · 20/05/2024 08:59

Well done all the women involved in fighting these atrocities 👏👏👏

MotherEarthisaTerf · 20/05/2024 08:59

DerekFaker · 20/05/2024 08:46

"Edinburgh Rape Crisis Center just posted this 7 minutes ago on their IG page. Not addressing they lost the employment tribunal brought against them on ALL COUNTS.

Mridul Wadhwa needs to be discharged immediately."

https://twitter.com/IsleLesbos/status/1792438646047482283?t=cmu5-g-ZyLL8pXKvBl9iFw&s=19

This is infuriating.

What about the judgement against them said that anybody wants anything other than an inclusive, survivor led service?

To include some survivors they need the security of having access to female only therapies. HOW IS THAT DIFFICULT TO ACCEPT. How is that not inclusive or survivor led??

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