Sound bites for woke chum

[genandtonic]

Are there any succinct, calm articles that can explain to my woke friends just why the trans movement wants to break up families, medicalise healthy teens and eradicate women’s words and spaces?
one thinks I’m transphobic - well yes, if that means I don’t want my daughter to medicalise.
one insists most trans people want to live life quietly, and JK shouldn’t be so mean To them.
and all think I’m overreacting as my daughter has gone no contact. ‘She’d have left home anyway, she’s 18’
I get so confused trying to explain it all and I start ranting. Is there anything I can just hand over?
I must have read stuff, but tbh, I’ve read so much, it’s all getting a bit muddled as to what I read and where. thank you!

This is really good advice.

After being hauled up to HR about 'transphobia' I now focus any of my opposition against extremist gender ideology through my thoughts on women & girls' rights, and the protected characteristic of 'sex' in the Equality Act.

I am very very careful not to say anything critical (or as little as possible) and trans-identified people, and at work, if pushed will say "Of course, trans-identified people should not be harassed or attacked.' And then turn the topic to women's rights ...

If you wanted to get really serious, one strategy I use is that extremist gender ideology seems to want to change the definition of 'woman.' And I then trot out the phrase (from Women's Place UK, I think): "nothing about us, without us" and say that we need to have a civil conversation about what seem like clashes of equally legal rights.

Oh, and I'm sorry to hear about your DD's no contact. That must be really tough. I hope she comes back to you - although a psychologist friend of mine tells me that young adults go through a sort of second adolescence between 18 and 21, so she could just be acting out. We none of us really mature till our mid-twenties, I think!

Yeah, I think the RedFem podcast women might have something to say about this. Can't think of a specific podcast episode, but they're worth a listen. Marxists, feminists, lesbians - they're good value!

And don't forget to consider the role of chemtrails in all of this.

@GrumpyPanda

Disprove that the cultural interpretation of Marxism doesn't have an impact on our culture if it's so clear. It's not wild, the definition of culture is "the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society" so of course behaviours and actions can be linked back to intellectual groups like the Frankfurt School.

Transgenderism is not based in Marxism. Its a neoliberal belief in the absolute rights of the individual over the welfare of the class as a whole.

That is questionable as transgenderism questions the core duality of human nature and family as a social unit. It tries to dismantle deep social structures which are foundational of our human identity. That has not a lot to do with neoliberal ideas of personal freedom as every liberal philosopher of the past and present recognises the border within freedom. It is however the critical theory that tries to structures of exclusion and domination which explains the gender struggles within transgenderism. Transgenderism I believe is a symptom of the critical theory which is a school of thought practiced by the Frankfurt school and they were all Marxists. Horkheimer described the theory as "to liberate human beings from the circumstances that enslave them".

Can you think of any liberal philosopher who can be seen as a for father of transgenderism as clearly as the Frankfurt school and what it created or was created from it afterwards?

That is questionable as transgenderism questions the core duality of human nature and family as a social unit.

Hmmm, don't think that's quite right. According to various philosophers on this subject (Kathleen Stock, Moira Gatens, Liz Grosz, for a start) the belief that you are a "woman in a man's body" is an EXTREME version of the mind-body split. Gender extremist ideology assumes that the mind/consciousness can be completely detached from the material reality of the body.

We are both mind and body, no matter what Rene Descartes argued.

Can you think of any liberal philosopher who can be seen as a for father of transgenderism as clearly as the Frankfurt school and what it created or was created from it afterwards?

Descartes. Obviously

AppleStrudel23 · Yesterday 14:46

You're making this about Jews, not me!

I'm not, it's an anti-Semitic term. Are the Jewish Chronicle and the Jerusalem Post not satisfactory sources for you?

Descartes? How so?

See my post above about the mind-body problem in Western philosophy.

Yes. But the cogito is not attached to any physical sexuality. There is no male and female mind according to Descartes for example. There may be philosophers who claim that but the intellectual sources they use are grounded in the Frankfurt school which again was my point.

After all it doesn't matter because the material manifestation of these philosophical thoughts lead towards the weakening of nuclear family units and brought on the sexual revolution which can be found again in the thoughts of the Frankfurt school. Thus proving my point again

You didn't answer my question. What should we call Cultural Marxism then? Because it is real and we can see it linked right back to the Frankfurt school. I personally don't care what's it called, so please tell me what I can call it instead so we don't have to argue about vocabulary and actually discuss the issue at hand.

Broad social movements cannot be explained by one single cause, and particularly not by an intellectual grouping such as the Frankfurt School. It's bad historiography.

AppleStrudel23

OK, if you want to be obtuse, let's not continue this and derail the thread.

It should be an easy answer. What's it called then we can carry on talking without detailing the thread?

What should I call cultural Marxism instead?

If you want to know who is influencing this, other than activists believing themselves to be right and being sanctimonious, then it's worth considering all the bot users on social media, echoing sentiments that increase division in society.

These absolutely exist and are generally pushing narratives that sow discontent, stir up social division and their aim is generally to weaken cultures with free elections because these threaten more authoritarian regimes. The biggest weakness of free societies is how much division there is. The people running this bots aren't pro or anti trans, they are just trying to enhance the voices in society that cause the biggest rifts.

Chaos is a ladder.

Please don’t worry about derailing the thread, this is interesting. Though I will have to do a lot of swatting up!
My (naive) concern is that whoever started this for whatever reason. ( and I believe it was some trans billionaires with an interest in eugenics/ pharma - I did have names and looked them up at one stage)other people have jumped on for all sorts of reasons.
I think they are pushing the goalposts soooo far that even if we push back, the goal posts will still have moved a considerable way.
so my question is what is the next stage? What are they aiming for after this?
it could just be,‘let’s see how far we can go’ and I’m sure for some groups it is, but the whole thing feels so orchestrated, and very very cleverly so. Presumably there will be some sort of vacuum in all the confusion and then some one, some regime, some ting can step in.

*AppleStrudel23 · Yesterday 17:38

What should I call c m instead?

I think it's best that you come up with something which is not anti-Semitic. I neither know, not care. Please stop asking me, I've demonstrated quite clearly that it IS an aS term.