Sound bites for woke chum

[genandtonic]

Are there any succinct, calm articles that can explain to my woke friends just why the trans movement wants to break up families, medicalise healthy teens and eradicate women’s words and spaces?
one thinks I’m transphobic - well yes, if that means I don’t want my daughter to medicalise.
one insists most trans people want to live life quietly, and JK shouldn’t be so mean To them.
and all think I’m overreacting as my daughter has gone no contact. ‘She’d have left home anyway, she’s 18’
I get so confused trying to explain it all and I start ranting. Is there anything I can just hand over?
I must have read stuff, but tbh, I’ve read so much, it’s all getting a bit muddled as to what I read and where. thank you!

Instead of trying to explain why the trans movement is wrong, focus on why women's rights still matter.

Women exist, we have rights, and we are still using them. They exist for reasons of safeguarding, biology and privacy. We don't consent to giving those rights to anyone who wants to claim them, and no one else can consent on our behalf.

Helen Joyce-Trans. Calm, reasoned arguments in favour of the old fashioned stuff everyone believed in until 5 minutes ago-you remember-truth, reality, science and biology.

I'm sorry about your daughter and I hope she comes back to you soon. You could watch Helen Joyce on YouTube. She's very logical and clear. It's hard to change people's minds though even though it's obvious to us.

It must be very difficult for you talking about this, as you have suffered a separation because of it - I hope you and your daughter find a good way back to each other soon - so 'rant' is an entirely understandable level of engagement!
But try to not to argue, you're probably going to be called transphobic whatever you say, you'll just wear yourself out.

I suggest a few prepared points like:
'Well, I just follow the science, you can't actually change sex' or
'Live and let live, but biological women deserve their own spaces, don't they?' or 'I'm just not comfortable with young people being given drugs without knowing what's going to happen down the line..'
In a tone that implies that you're not going to argue about it, that's just what YOU think.....and inside you can be thinking
'And that's just a mild version of what I think and what's more, I'm bloody well right!'

You need to take care of yourself, you're going through a difficult time, and you don't have to take on the big arguments every time.
'Hmm yes well we'll agree to disagree' is a perfectly valid response from you.

I just wouldn’t bother. If they don’t get it now, they never will.

You can’t reason your friends/family out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.

It doesn’t matter how many well written articles and books you put their way, they are thinking with their emotions not their brain. I second the advice PPs of deciding your personal “manifesto” if you like to describe it that way and just stick to those points and not get sucked into pointless debates. And I would agree to frame it as women’s and children’s rights first and foremost - if that is indeed your main concern.

Yes, I'd say definitely present it as 'this is what I think' in short phrases that are hard to argue with, like

All young people deserve evidence based healthcare. In not comfortable with minors being given medical treatments which are likely to sterilise them and haven't been proven to help them.

Or whatever works for you.

You aren't going to change minds by arguing because people don't like to admit they have changed their position as it feels like saying 'I was wrong' (that's why we need to allow those in the public eye to do a u turn without too much recrimination).

Really sorry about your daughter xx

You can’t reason your friends/family out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.

This. I can understand wanting to counter false information though.

Thanks everyone. Our concern is that she is all about the pronouns to her kids, and may be inadvertently, or vertantly for all we know, influencing our teen when they see their teen. She did say,’oh but you’re transphobic’ which is worrying. And stupid.

I'm very sorry to hear about your DD, that's really difficult. Sasha and Stella do talk about a bit about dealing with other parents on one of their "Gender a wider lens" podcasts Episode 43 Q&A

There's a big difference between "leaving home" and "going no contact". When an 18 year old leaves home normally you'd know if they're OK or if they need help. The threat of going "no contact" is something trans activists have taught young people to use against their families.

Did she actually called you "transphobic"? That's deeply insulting and I would probably have reacted quite angrily, the same way as if she'd casually said "oh but you're racist"(!) But it might be better if you don't try to argue with her in case it gets back to your DD. You don't want to force a deeper wedge between you and DD with this other woman playing the "glitter mum".

For people who are not quite that batshit I have found a useful cliche "oh, these young people, they don't think about the long term do they?" That does tend to get adults thinking.

Thanks ! That’s great advice, am off to listen now. I like the,’oh these young people..’ thought.
Pam feeling like a Karen and a terf. A karerf!

So sorry for what’s happened with your daughter.
I’d focus on the Cass report findings. Safe spaces and all the rest of it can be more of a grey area but no one (sane or logical) can argue against Cass’ findings about medical interventions for children. Stay away from all the other stuff and keep focussed on how trans activists caused health professionals to bypass normal standards of healthcare and safeguarding. It has caused irreparable damage to the health and wellbeing some vulnerable children.
ask people how they would feel if their child had been given life-changing treatment when no one knew what the outcome would be. What would they feel now?
How about linking to or quoting from this very basic guardian article on it. The guardian cannot be interpreted as transphobic but to me it is still a scary read even with the mildest most “balanced” spin https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/what-are-the-key-findings-of-the-nhs-gender-identity-review

For what it's worth my DC thinks that Cass is wrong - even looking at this from a clinical outcome point of view is wrong! Because DC is very worried about Cass taking away the "right" for young people to medicalise.

So that's the "right" to do very harmful things to yourself based on turning a blind eye, bad evidence, dodgy politics, and wishful thinking.

That's where this ideology has got us - the right to ignore evidence, the right to cause irreparable damage.

Ps love your user name @Mulloffuckintyre

I think a good place to look into is its roots, which is cultural Marxism. It all links back to that and how they want to destruction of the nuclear family and women in the "factories" not at home with the babies. I believe the Frankfurt School started all that which goes back to Marxism. All those intellectuals understood each other as Marxists. Also this whole whole nonsense of one group is the oppressor and the other a victim so one is good one is bad get rid of the bad and cater to the victim is also under that umbrella. It started with the workers and the factories and now it's everywhere and it's been translated in culture that's why it's cultural Marxism.

It's crazy ones you look into it and connecting all the dots! Also free masonry pushed that too and they're still doing in institutions and other places etc.

Thanks apple that’s certainly interesting who’d have thought I’d be looking up Marxism! Is there any other thoughts on who is orchestrating this? Because it does feel orchestrated. I know stonewall anre a lot to do with it in the uk, but who is behind them? and I have read the dentons article. But why did dentons produce that doc? ( I’ve heard it was a transvestite in iceland branch)but it must have been more than just him? And who did they pass it to?

And what, when this initial attack subsides, will be left? What is their endgame?
though this is possibly a bit much as a sounbite argument that I can trot out without scaring people off!

I'm a Marxist. Transgenderism is nothing to do with Marxism.

Marxism is based on materialism, which definitely does not include pretending that men are women.

AppleStrudel23 · Yesterday 12:35

I think a good place to look into is its roots, which is cultural Marxism.

Please, please don't use that term, it's Nazi era code for "The Jews" and deeply anti Semitic.

Are you saying "Cultural Marxism" is an anti Semitic term? Or which term do you mean?

The Frankfurt school is based on neither religion or race and Marxism isn't based on race either. Anyone can be a Marxist. Cultural Marxism absolutely exists, it links back the Frankfurt school and it absolutely links to Marxism. There's nothing racial about it, even if the Nazis used that as a slur it does not take away from the fact it exists. You have the freedom to say that the impacts of Marxism on culture is good, however I have the freedom to disagree which I do. Does that make me an anti semite?

That's why I said cultural Marxism, which followed the development from the teaching of Adorno and Marcuse who heavily supported the sexual revolution and the demolition of nuclear family and subsequently gender roles. This is the cultural aspect of Marxism. Marxism it may be most famous for its economic ideas (developed in Marx's das Kapital) however even Friedrich Engels wrote about the nuclear family in the book "the origin of the family, private property and the state". Cultural Marxism is a reality away from the economic side of Marxism.

Hi! I'll look into that and get back to you. Thanks for sharing

AppleStrudel23 · Today 14:16

Are you saying "Cultural Marxism" is an anti Semitic term? Or which term do you mean?

Yes, absolutely.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/is-the-term-cultural-marxism-really-antisemitic-rn6x61tm
In short, Cultural Marxism can be and has been used as an antisemitic phrase, to confer antisemitic meaning or as an antisemitic dog whistle. Because of that, it should be avoided.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching
Cultural Marxism,' a conspiracy theory with an anti-Semitic twist, is being pushed by much of the American right.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism
A leading Jewish group has criticised a Conservative former minister for using the term “cultural Marxism” in a speech, a reference to a conspiracy theory often associated with the far right and antisemitism.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-743166
Cultural Marxism is a far-right conspiracy theory that arose in the past century, which accuses left-wing and liberal people of revolutionizing society for the worse with their views. This theory purports that Marxist scholars devised a clandestine agenda of progressive politics aimed at undermining Western democracies. Over time, the theory gained antisemitic tones as many who believe in it believe it to be a Jewish plot.

You're making this about Jews, not me!

But fine, let's pander to your beliefs. What shall we call the influence of these thinkers (whatever race they are, I don't care what they are) and the teachings that interpreted these sociologists and philosophers which where all Marxists and now it affects culture. What is it called?

That's what I'm talking about, not about their ethnicity or religion. But please tell me, what's the appropriate wording for that school of thought and it's affects, and whatever it's called I still believe it's wrong.

The problem is that gender ideology isn't orchestrated. There's no one place or group to blame so there's no quick fix or prevention. It's more like a many-headed hydra, or a disaster when many smaller things went wrong in a chain reaction. Yes there have been specific campaigns and some have been very effective, and yes the Denton's document explained how political capture works and could be a guidebook for many organisations not just whoever first commissioned it. But the effects are more like a flood than a nuclear explosion because gender ideology is fluid(!) and it gets everywhere.

Trans ideology can fit nicely with strict old-fashioned homophobia (my child mustn't grow up gay but they are effeminate, a woman in a man's body is not a gay man, no homosexuality to see here!) and also fit with modern permissiveness and queer theory (my child can be whoever they say they are and it's all fluid anyway so who cares who's a man or a woman) Trans ideology can be leftwing or rightwing or both or neither. Even simple universal ideas like "kindness" can become fair game.

You can try to say "oh it's this kind of politics or that kind of politics to blame" but that's a dead end because gender ideology can be fitted in with all sorts of different politics and different beliefs.