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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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Datun · 03/05/2024 12:08

unintended101 · 03/05/2024 11:20

Please please please please. Though I'm still rolling from Jo's "They say karma's a bitch, but I hear she's a TERF."

What I love about that is the layers.

It's assertive, amusing, claims ownership of karma as female, and uses TRA's favourite weapon, terf, as a triumph.

She has an absolutely brilliant knack of turning the tables using people's own words and behaviour.

Look what she did with Willoughby, after they claimed all the people on that list were sex offenders.

Perfect put down.

It's not just her power riles them up, it's her willingness, and talent, as a woman, to verbally put them down at the drop of a hat - sends them into the stratosphere.

BezMills · 03/05/2024 12:22

GoldThumb · 03/05/2024 07:52

Inclusive in the tweets, TERFS in the sheets…

Facts

miri1985 · 03/05/2024 12:25

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 03:58

And he got an Emmy nomination last year. I don’t know where people are getting the idea that he’s all washed-up as an actor. Obviously he’s not making blockbusters anymore, but I don’t think anyone ever expected him to - everyone knew that the draw of the HP movies was the characters, not the actors.

Hes currently on broadway and has a Tony nomination for best actor in a musical so hes not doing bad at all
https://www.tonyawards.com/nominees/

The Tony Award Nominations

https://www.tonyawards.com/nominees

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 15:32

JudgyGarland · 03/05/2024 10:27

I agree that Sirius isn't to 'blame' for his actions it's a series of actions and poor character decisions highlighting their flaws that lead to his death. Harry's rashness and need to be the hero (not to mention ignoring Hermione) Dumbledore's secrecy and lack of compassion if the big picture is concerned, Snape's lingering resentment, Sirius' rashness and abuse of Kreacher. They all come together to end in tragedy and all the characters need to learn from this to 'win'.

I think it's all far more clever than finding blame. I think it's basically a commentary on how difficult it is to break abuse cycles. Sirius is abused by his parents (alluded to at least) Kreacher is abused systematically. To align Kreacher with the 'goodies' he needed to be treated with respect. Molly couldn't do it, as a 'blood traitor' he wouldn't listen. Nor Harry as a half blood. Hermione tried but was in no position to do so. Sirius as the pure blood black stood the most chance but it's notable that he hadn't worked through his own trauma and this was being made worse by Dumbledore's actions. This isn't excusing it, just an explanation. Dumbledore did say they should be kind to Kreacher and recognised the danger, but, being Dumbledore and stuck in his own coping mechanism of withholding information, perhaps failed to show the true danger. It was staring them in the face when Kreacher starts favouring Bellatrix's picture and with all the information he could have figured it out.

I think it's notable that in the end, for Kreacher, the cycle is broken when Regulus shows with actions not words he renounces the true blood maniac. This coupled with Hermione's persistent concern for him and Harry's actions on discovering what happened in the cave meant he was able to see her as worthy after being brainwashed for so long.

Yeah, it was kind of a perfect storm of flaws.

I feel like Sirius was so devalued by JKR and other characters after his death. We hear a passing remark towards the beginning of HBP that there’s going to be an investigation about his wrongful conviction, but if there is, we never see it. No one gives Sirius a memorial service. It seems like pretty much every time a character mentions him after his death, it’s in the context of his flaws - Sirius was rash, Sirius wasn’t nice to Kreacher. Harry had more angst and nightmares over Cedric’s death than he does over Sirius’s death. When Harry has his own kids, it’s important for us to know that one son has the middle name Severus, but Harry’s other son having the middle name Sirius is sort of second-class, semi-canonical information in that JKR didn’t include it in the actual books.

Sirius is my favorite character because I relate to him more than any other character. He goes through severe depression; he doesn’t bother phrasing things with social finesse; people misinterpret him because he doesn’t react the way they think he should. (Everybody thinks he’s a particularly evil person because he laughed after the Potters died. He laughed because he was stunned by the irony that Peter had outwitted them all.) He’s rash (I have ADHD) and highly verbal. He’s loyal to his friends and it doesn’t occur to him that some of them might not be as loyal in return. He feels guilty about things that aren’t his fault (he feels he “as good as killed” James and Lily). He prioritizes doing what he feels to be right over getting along with other people. He has a hard time seeing nuance in people he hates. He does his best to be Harry’s parent figure while fighting his own inner demons. He would die to save people he loves.

I was born in 1986, so I was a teenager during Pottermania. People were always like, “You’re a girl and you love books - I bet your favorite character is Hermione,” but Sirius was always my “spirit animal.”

NonPlayerCharacter · 03/05/2024 19:16

Oh he absolutely has an acting career. I just don't know how, because he's fucking shit.

NonPlayerCharacter · 03/05/2024 19:20

Jo, you're fucking killing us here.

Daniel Radcliffe doubles down
JudgyGarland · 03/05/2024 20:04

@YankSplaining really good points. I actually think my dislike for Sirius comes down to projection somewhat thinking about it. It's that combination of two rash characters that lead to his death, but because it's Harry that ends up living with the guilt and he's a child I think it colours my judgement. As a surrogate parent Sirius leaves much to be desired but he's certainly an interesting character. I absolutely hate reading his death and aftermath and often skip them.

The scene where Harry lashes out in the book is so raw that, no I don't think DR pulled it off. (The movie death that actually makes me weep buckets is Cedric Diggory (that's my son!😭)

Yeah the naming thing annoys me, I get why she did it but they sound like the names a Harry Potter geek would give their kids. I'm not a huge fan of naming kids after dead people in real life either so I find the epilogue absolute cringe.

It's interesting because Harry Potter follows the classic orphan fairytale device, no parents so can throw them into peril they must solve, coming of age etc. And although he collects parental figures throughout the series they all represent different parental strengths in different ways, none as fully rounded as you believe James and Lily would have been. Molly and Sirius in particular butt horns because they represent two sides of parenthood. The way they speak to eachother at times gives me secondhand embarrassment!

RufustheFactualReindeer · 03/05/2024 20:50

The movie death that actually makes me weep buckets is Cedric Diggory (that's my son!😭)

every time, its gut wrenching

JudgyGarland · 03/05/2024 20:57

What I find particularly gut wrenching is that it's Cedric Diggory's father's intervention, telling Arthur to go 'smooth things out' for Mad Eye which stops the imposter being detected and gets him into Hogwarts where he sets up the events that result in Cedric's death.

ilurktherforeiam · 03/05/2024 21:45

miri1985 · 03/05/2024 12:25

Hes currently on broadway and has a Tony nomination for best actor in a musical so hes not doing bad at all
https://www.tonyawards.com/nominees/

Erm awards? After reading how all the glitzy award nominations and final choices are made and who makes those choices, hard pass on believing that they actually mean anything.

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 23:30

ilurktherforeiam · 03/05/2024 21:45

Erm awards? After reading how all the glitzy award nominations and final choices are made and who makes those choices, hard pass on believing that they actually mean anything.

They definitely mean something in terms of industry recognition and future opportunities. Let’s just admit it, everybody - as much as we may want him to have a shit career, he’s doing well for himself and in fact seems to be at a high point. A bad career would be something like doing Lifetime original movies and low-budget horror movies that debut on one of the smaller streaming services.

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 23:32

JudgyGarland · 03/05/2024 20:57

What I find particularly gut wrenching is that it's Cedric Diggory's father's intervention, telling Arthur to go 'smooth things out' for Mad Eye which stops the imposter being detected and gets him into Hogwarts where he sets up the events that result in Cedric's death.

Okay, how weird is this - my older daughter and I are reading GoF and we just read that chapter last night. 😮

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 23:42

JudgyGarland · 03/05/2024 20:04

@YankSplaining really good points. I actually think my dislike for Sirius comes down to projection somewhat thinking about it. It's that combination of two rash characters that lead to his death, but because it's Harry that ends up living with the guilt and he's a child I think it colours my judgement. As a surrogate parent Sirius leaves much to be desired but he's certainly an interesting character. I absolutely hate reading his death and aftermath and often skip them.

The scene where Harry lashes out in the book is so raw that, no I don't think DR pulled it off. (The movie death that actually makes me weep buckets is Cedric Diggory (that's my son!😭)

Yeah the naming thing annoys me, I get why she did it but they sound like the names a Harry Potter geek would give their kids. I'm not a huge fan of naming kids after dead people in real life either so I find the epilogue absolute cringe.

It's interesting because Harry Potter follows the classic orphan fairytale device, no parents so can throw them into peril they must solve, coming of age etc. And although he collects parental figures throughout the series they all represent different parental strengths in different ways, none as fully rounded as you believe James and Lily would have been. Molly and Sirius in particular butt horns because they represent two sides of parenthood. The way they speak to eachother at times gives me secondhand embarrassment!

I’ve thought for the last several years that there some critics’ organization or another should create an award for movie performances under ten minutes. If there were, the guy who plays Cedric’s dad would deserve a nomination, IMO.

JudgyGarland · 03/05/2024 23:51

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 23:42

I’ve thought for the last several years that there some critics’ organization or another should create an award for movie performances under ten minutes. If there were, the guy who plays Cedric’s dad would deserve a nomination, IMO.

Yeah I agree that scene lives rent free in my head. He must have kids, the absolute raw emotion never fails to leave me deeply effected and wanting to go check my kids in bed.

JudgyGarland · 03/05/2024 23:53

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 23:32

Okay, how weird is this - my older daughter and I are reading GoF and we just read that chapter last night. 😮

There's so many bits in that book on a second reading you realise everything could change in a moment if the characters would only look at the clues there.
And then there's planting the horcrux in that book. It's really quite a skill to link things together without being cumbersome or obvious but the whole series is littered with these little hints.

ilurktherforeiam · 04/05/2024 00:02

YankSplaining · 03/05/2024 23:30

They definitely mean something in terms of industry recognition and future opportunities. Let’s just admit it, everybody - as much as we may want him to have a shit career, he’s doing well for himself and in fact seems to be at a high point. A bad career would be something like doing Lifetime original movies and low-budget horror movies that debut on one of the smaller streaming services.

My comment was meant regarding awards = good acting.

Anyone very rich can pretty much buy into anything they want, they don't have to have talent (Jack Reacher 2012).

Chersfrozenface · 05/05/2024 08:54

NonPlayerCharacter · 03/05/2024 19:16

Oh he absolutely has an acting career. I just don't know how, because he's fucking shit.

He gets parts because he's still a Name. Producers believe casting Names brings in the paying punters.

See also casting singers and comedians of varying acting ability in stage and TV shows - some of them absolutely hopeless.

(Carefully reread and rewritten to remove bad language.)

PriOn1 · 05/05/2024 10:28

I feel like Sirius was so devalued by JKR and other characters after his death. We hear a passing remark towards the beginning of HBP that there’s going to be an investigation about his wrongful conviction, but if there is, we never see it. No one gives Sirius a memorial service. It seems like pretty much every time a character mentions him after his death, it’s in the context of his flaws - Sirius was rash, Sirius wasn’t nice to Kreacher. Harry had more angst and nightmares over Cedric’s death than he does over Sirius’s death.

I haven’t read the books in a long time, but I always felt there was a mystery about Sirius’ death that was never resolved. He fell through an archway from which Harry could hear whispering, as far as I remember (sorry, I’m away from home and don’t have the books to hand, so apologies if I get any details wrong). Reading it, I wondered whether JK Rowling was leaving it open as to whether he could return as it didn’t seem absolutely certain he was dead. I don’t think it was ever explained what that archway was, which for me, felt like a loose end.

I’d be interested to hear what others made of it, or if I missed something later that made sense of it. @GwenogJones @JudgyGarland @YankSplaining

NonPlayerCharacter · 05/05/2024 10:37

As an adult, I saw that archway as a symbol of death on a level suitable for a younger audience.

Every character in Harry Potter who dies and whom he loved or cares for reappears in some form to him afterwards.

Abhannmor · 05/05/2024 10:53

I read the first five HP books to the kids. JK is a top plot writer . The Agatha Christie of our times. I love the clever use of puns and palindromes . Also Latin which got my children enthused for that language. After the Prisoner of Azkaban I thought the writing was overlong and a bit tired in parts. Not surprising maybe? She needed an editor but when you're making the company billions , who's going to do it 😂

I thought the actors did alright until the later films.Perhaps they were going through teen angst in real life though. They are going to feel like right chumps after all this nonsense is over. It's a good job their money is made already .

Abhannmor · 05/05/2024 11:03

SinnerBoy · 02/05/2024 10:39

Abhannmor · Today 10:25

Please don't use the term " Cultural Marxist", it's Nazi era code for "The Jews."

I thought it was an 80s coinage from the US right wing?

In Britain antisemitism is more often conveyed by North London Cosmopolitan, or ' citizens of nowhere ' - all used by the right wing UK media during Ed Millibands leadership of Labour.

NonPlayerCharacter · 05/05/2024 11:16

Abhannmor · 05/05/2024 11:03

I thought it was an 80s coinage from the US right wing?

In Britain antisemitism is more often conveyed by North London Cosmopolitan, or ' citizens of nowhere ' - all used by the right wing UK media during Ed Millibands leadership of Labour.

It's rooted in antisemitism and perpetuates the ongoing antisemitic idea that Jews infiltrate, undermine and suppress other cultures that they live in.

Don't use it.

Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

StainlessSteelMouse · 05/05/2024 12:05

The Frankfurt School did actually exist of course, as you can see on earlier versions of the wiki article, though whatever weird crap is coming out of the universities today doesn't seem to have much to do with the theories of Theodor Adorno.

Yes, Ed Miliband got a rough deal, and I sometimes wonder how much of that was low key antisemitism. It was very noticeable because this wasn't long after those Labour posters depicting Michael Howard as Fagin, which seem to have been completely memory holed.

SinnerBoy · 05/05/2024 12:15

Abhannmor · Today 11:03

I thought it was an 80s coinage from the US right wing?

No, it was probably mis-applied by them, however.

JudgyGarland · 05/05/2024 13:01

I agree the archway is a metaphor for death, the sudden and irreversible nature of Sirius' death reflects this, I think.
Red can
Just before he goes through the beg archway, Sirius is hit by a spell, so could have been dead before he goes through the veil. It's a neat way of not having a body, a funeral or any closure for Harry. Bellatrix is both to blame and not to blame, and you can see this in both Harry's searching for a villain in Snape, and also in that he later tries to use crucio on her because he hates. (Although at that point he doesn't quite manage it as 'You've got to really mean it". That tells me Harry is still blaming others, himself, Snape and Dumbledore for Sirius' death in book 6. By book 7 he refers to it as the wand that kills Sirius so I believe that's him coming to terms with his own guilt and what happened to Sirius. It also implies to me that she was more culpable than him simply falling through the veil.

The veil itself follows in the footsteps of veils as gateways to the other world/unknown across literature and myth. I don't think that's an accident because JK is well read and into symbols and origins. Romantic poets, classic literature etc. The hearing whispering and yet not seeing, being unreachable reflects death very accurately as well. Having Luna, who has experienced loss and is open to the supernatural being the other character who hears the voices is a nice touch too.

I find Sirius death really hard to cope with because of all the reasons above. As I said above, it's a lot more real and raw than Cedric's death in the books. Harry is somewhat removed from Mr and Mrs Diggory's grief in the books as they are numb and he doesn't see all the stages of grief. With Sirius he very much experiences all the stages of grief himself, with the added burdens of guilt and no closure. If it were a Mumsnet thread it would come with a trigger warning!

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