Billy Bragg getting challenged in the Observer

[GrimbutGerbil]

By a male journalist…

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/apr/28/billy-bragg-interview-progressive-patriot?CMP=twt_a-music_b-gdnmusic

Yesssssss. That's quite the broad brush to determine what is meant by an "anti-gender"/"anti-trans movement".
It sounds meaningless.

It's a pointless (disingenuous?) as co-opting Hitler's views on concentration camps in to the aims of an "animal rights movement" because Hitler was vegetarian.

Agreed on all counts

Billy's "wrong side of the table" argument is no different than the argument of those who try to silence any legitimate protest against Israeli policy by lumping all criticism of Israel and all concern for the rights and wellbeing of Palestinians, as having sympathies with Nazis and antisemites. What would he say to someone who pointed out he's on the same side of the table as neo Nazi, because neither of them are likely to be fans of Netenyahu?

Some people have reasoned, evidence-based concerns about an ideology that defines womanhood away from its material, biological, objectively quantifiable characteristics. These people oppose policies based on that ideology, because such policies recklessly cause risk, harm, and disadvantage to women, by depriving them of single-sex spaces, and to children by subjecting them to experimental and irreversible medical interventions including sterilisation and the prevention of maturity.

Other people think men and women should live according to strict gender roles, that lipstick and high heels and helplessness are all inherent parts of femaleness, that men and only men should be big and strong and never cry, and that homosexuality is sinful and icky and shouldn't be allowed.

These are not the same people. Anyone who still thinks they are, must be an idiot.

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/30/the-far-right-co-option-of-the-transgender-rights-issue/

Billy doing his "The nazis used maths to develop technology to do bad stuff. Helen Joyce has a Phd in maths-ergo, Helen is a nazis". Is he really that thick?

What a dimwit.

Do you not feel embarrassed banging on a about a $15k donation 8 years ago, to a radfem group on another continent?

How much public money has been ploughed into UK trans advocacy groups in that time? Millions.

Bragg has shown himself to be an idiot drawing these weak connections and relying on guilt by association. Maybe don't rush to join him?

It's well-known (in "gender critical" circles) that many people from all political persuasions and religious/atheist viewpoints don't believe that everyone has a gender identity. This means that, inevitably, some far right etc people will share the views that many liberals also hold that transwomen are not women.

It's also well-known in the same circles that, until recently, most liberal press/media wouldn't explore this issue through any lens other than an affirmation that "trans people are who they say they are".

As more organisations like the Guardian and BBC start to publish information about the harms relating to gender identity belief, the wider public will also have more visibility of the nuances that Billy Bragg, and others like him, either can't or won't see.

If your critical thinking skills are not well honed, picking a side and shutting your ears to debate is the way you go I suppose. Interesting to see the desire for “relevancy” acknowledged. AKA how can I make myself fashionable to the youth? I know! By pitching in on something I don’t understand and dumping on those old Karens! Go Billy!

The cynical self-interested numbnut is in full reverse ferret mode, this is the first stage.

What an unforgivably toxic little misogynist.

By the same token, though, there are people who camapign against Israel and make it the focus of all their political critcism without actually being aware or knowledgeable ( or reasoned) about the wider contexts, or of the history of anti semitism, let alone the specific policies of any one specific Israeli government. They are simply 'against Israel' because that is the position of Leftist tribes.

Bragg is partaking in common leftist positions, not through understanding, but through tribal loyalty and the emotional feel good vibes he gets from supposedly being on the right side of the table/history.

He’s just a busker who got lucky. Without the politics, he would have been strumming the Streets of London outside Woolworths

I know he wouldn't show quite as much respect to a female journalist who was GC than he did to this Male Journo.

He's a washed up, has been, sexist Marxist who desperate to stay relevant.

You would hope that people might look at the US and see where “pick a side and ignore all reasoned argument” gets you -division, rancour and stalemate.

there are many more men (and women) who are followers of the alt-right fundamentalists who are using the narrative of protecting children, or of concern for women's rights to mask their bigotry.

No one is specifically disagreeing with this.

We are disagreeing with the conclusion that the "narrative of protecting children", as you call it, is therefore inherently wrong.

I personally think protecting children is very important. Crucial, even.

😂😂

That’s a heck of a stretch for guilt by association. Not only are WOLF guilty for sitting at the same table as the far right but feminists in the UK also need scrutiny because they sit at the same table as people in another country who have sat at the same table….
How many degrees of separation does it take before we’re not witches?

At that point theose who hold such, and certain, positions on the basis that they are 'good, kind' people will suggest that all they really ever cared about was protecting marginalised and vulnerable 'trans/people'.

At this point will come the opportunity to unpack what is meant by a 'trans person'. Becaue these people have also never questioned the basics, or reflected on exactly what having a 'trans identity' means or implies.

By uncovering and revealing the conceptual nature of 'gender identity' it can be shown that there is no such thing as a 'trans child' - simply children, and others, who are struggling with various personal issues, feelings, discomfort, dysphoria who are framing their desires, or discomforts, through the lens of gender identity theory.

Do you not feel embarrassed banging on a about a $15k donation 8 years ago, to a radfem group on another continent?

It also betrays a fairly crucial misunderstanding of what feminism actually is. There's no 'one group', there's really no one 'movement'. There's not a central council that signs off on the wims' manifesto. Most feminist activism is small and grass roots. One group's objectives will be different to another. WOLF getting a small grant has no impact on the feminist organisation that lives next door to WOLF because there's not a central pot of cash. I am not tarnished because a group of women accepted funding that I would not have.

Feminism is fractured and argumentative and often very individualised. My brand of feminism would use the word women's liberation from patriarchy, the lassie that sits beside me at work would say it is about equal choice. It's a broad church and all the better for that.

And you CANNOT put the same lens on the US as you do on the UK. The contexts are wholly and completely different.

“Because when I get depressed or cynical, I have the privilege of being able to go out in the dark and sing my songs, and when everyone claps, I don’t feel so bad. What I hope to do in my gigs is for the audience to feel like that too. That at least there’s this roomful of people in their town who do give a shit. Music can’t change the world, but it can do that.”’

Ah I miss those innocent days of youth when we all affirmed each other in our right-on-ness with marching and singing. It's a lovely feeling.

Sadly I grew up and started realising no one tribe gets it all right, and I was going to have to start thinking for myself. Annoying but necessary once you hit thirty or so, if you want to maintain your intellectual self-respect.

Billy's on the facebook thanking the writer for a lovely write-up, by the way...

I think if your self righteousness bubble is big enough you have no need of intellectual self respect.

I would have liked to hear his views on nepotism. I'm sure there are plenty of talented young musicians who would have jumped at the chance to tour with him. Seems being a socialist doesn't stop him from indulging in a little bit of nepo.

Before anyone says "Oh, but any father should have the chance to help his child..." or similar - he put himself on what he perceives as the moral high ground. Can't complain when people hold him to it.

Regarding Billy not being very bright, it seems that he also can’t tell the difference between a ‘trans kid’ and a child with gender dysphoria.

He is very loyal to his tribe but seems to suggetst that even if 'The Left' are wrong on an issue that J.K.Rowling and Julie Bindel should have looked away, to support the team.
What's the point of democratic debate if you can't question issues that your side are getting wrong, like puberty blockers, women's rights and women's sports- we have the right to object even if some right wing people agree with you.

He's cut ties with Labour and joined the more extreme Left, the most 'fasionable' causes, the more metropolitan elite Left wing student causes that move away from supporting the working classes, it is not a surprise.