Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?

[lechiffre55]

A Metropolitan police officer threatened to arrest a man for being "Openly Jewish" in London. Is this a hate crime in Scotland under the new hate crime laws?

I think it is. Could someone report it for me please I find it incredibly offensive and racist. I want to see what happens when Scottish Police try to get involved with racist actions taken by the Metropolitan Police.

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1781393179683483960

Oh, okay, so I didn't see that poor young woman Na'ama Levy being hauled out of a truck in Gaza with cuts to her ankles and blood all over her crotch. And she was never taken hostage, it was all a set-up job by the wicked Jews.

Honestly, you disgust me (edited to add, perhaps I should say that your behaviour disgusts me; perhaps you are just naive). You also are very exercised about the dispossession of the Palestinians without appearing to have a clue about the history of the Jews in the Arab lands. Many of them fled with what they stood up in and a suitcase.

And NONE of this takes away from the fact that Gideon Falter demonstrated that there is active and aggressive antisemitism running through those marches like Brighton through a stick of rock.

Being Irish, I'm very familiar with this spiral of 'whataboutery'. There's always somebody else's atrocity to point at while downplaying your own, always a cherry-picking of historical fact.
Some historical facts are incontrovertible, and in these days of phone footage, live streaming, and a range of different news channels covering the same incidents, it's just about possible for a reasonable person to get past the propaganda and get a reasonably objective set of facts which are not all from one side. It doesn't happen a lot, especially in the Israel-Palestine dilemma, but it's possible.
Most people in Ireland accepted that everybody North and South is a human being, and that, unfortunately and unfairly, [incontrovertible historical facts exist] 'we are where we are' and sometimes you just have to accept the status quo, stop killing, and start from here, not from where you would like to be starting from, or feel historically justified in starting from.
There's nothing special about the Irish, so if we can do it, is féidir/it's possible elsewhere.

You are aware that Al Jazeera is the hamas mouth-piece? Primarily funded by Qatar, they openly support hamas, Iran and hezbollah. Why on earth would you think that's an appropriate source? I assume if you are happy to accept an openly pro-hamas media source you will be just as trusting of an openly pro-Israeli media source, so here's an article from the Jerusalem Post to prove it: Al Jazeera is an inflammatory propaganda channel that must be shut down - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com).

Or just check out some of the vast number of impartial sources from all across the world going back many years, it's hardly a secret.

(Also important to point out that unlike Al Jazeera, the Jerusalem Post has not ever been accused of propaganda and is actually regarded as a very reliable news source.)

I agree, but unfortunately, Palestinian children in Hamas-controlled schools are literally taught that Jewish people are NOT human. So that's their starting point.

If Israel really were committing genocide (in the true sense of the word) then you'd have thought they'd start with the 1.8 million Palestinians living and working peacefully in Israel.

After all, even Adolf started all his shit at home.

Me too unless she’s a Jew

Even if the number of 30,000 is to be believed (they know their exact number of dead but don’t know where the hostages are…) then that’s 0.2% of the population. Hardly a genocide. In fact, Israel could decimate Gaza and its inhabitants in about 4 hours. They don’t because they’re not evil psychos. Israel doesn’t even want Gaza. Nobody does. Egypt closed their 5 mile border in the south because they don’t want anything to do with them.
This whole thread and discussion is horrifying. If you changed the word “Jew” to “black”, “Muslim” even “trans” then nobody would have the balls to justify or deny their experience. But it’s a free for all when Jews are concerned because apparently we run the world, control the media, commit atrocities, lie, steal, claim victim hood and colonise. Pretty impressive for 0.02% of the worlds population innit.

@LadyGooGaa
I hope it's a small consolation/comfort that by far the majority on this thread, and I hope by extension tha MN board, think all Jews should be able to live their lives without any fear, wherever they like however they like with equal rights and equal respect to everyone else.

Yes exactly, when people bleat and hand wring about the Palestinians being trapped with nowhere to go, they conveniently fail to mention the land border with Egypt. Egypt doesn't want Hamas or Hamas sympathisers on their soil, because they are a massive security risk. So it's okay for Egypt to do whatever necessary to contain the problem in order to protect themselves, even if that decision is tough on innocent Palestinians, but it's completely beyond the pale for Israel to do the same thing.

It is pretty desperate to try to deny such atrocities were carried out. I'm not sure why you might want to do that? Perhaps so you can continue to maintain a black and white view of the world, in which Israel has no credits to its name at all, and only debits; and where Hamas and the Palestinian leadership over the decades have no responsibility at all.

There is widespread evidence of atrocities, not only which were witnessed, but which were filmed by Hamas themselves. Leaders and journalists from around the world have viewed some of the footage, and there are multiple images to be found if you are intent on looking, along with horrifying testimonies.

Furthermore rapes and torture have been committed on the hostages, and children were given ketamine to keep them quiet.

The post mortems that are still being carried out will go on to form a body of evidence with which to hold those that perpertrated these acts to account for the atrocities they committed.

You can live in denial all you like, but it doesn't change the truth.

No one here is gloating over the terrible situation and loss of life in the Middle East for goodness sake! No one here is delighting in the deaths of innocent people including women and children. It's disgusting to suggest that people taking a stand against the increasing anti semitism in the UK are doing that.

Stop trying to use it to justify a mob shouting "Nazi" and "Scum" at a Jew many miles away in London.

Let's have a real FACT for FunGuyPie who is so determined to plop here and attempt to deny, blame, and turn the talk from the escalating Jew hate here in the UK.

From February's Hansard.

The Community Security Trust published its latest report on antisemitic incidents. It made for deeply disturbing reading. It showed that there were 4,103 instances of anti-Jewish racist hatred recorded across the UK in 2023. That is the highest annual total ever reported to the Community Security Trust. It is a 147% rise from the 1,662 antisemitic incidents the previous year, and 81% higher than the previous yearly record of 2,261 incidents, reported in 2021. Most shockingly, more than two thirds of the incidents reported last year occurred on or after 7 October, when Hamas perpetrated its barbaric terrorist attack on Israel. The report also indicates that antisemitism began spiking before Israel’s military response had begun: the week immediately following 7 October saw 416 antisemitic incidents reported to the CST, which is higher than any subsequent week. The Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2024-02-19/debates/788C5AA8-47E6-4D42-916C-E569D0B260A5/AntisemitismInTheUK

Yeah, I think I've asked people this before; I don't understand how Israel is blockading Palestine and keeping the population in an 'open prison' - but Egypt's not. Especially as it's been predominantly Israel who has provided Palestine with water, electricity etc. I'm not actually sure if Egypt's ever provided any sort of aid?

The more that person posts, the more obvious it is that the poster has little understanding of the wider and complicated politics of the other countries in that part of the world.

A blame the Jews and only the Jews, any Jew will do, agenda.

the stories that came out in the days following the attack were false....these include claims of atrocities such as the mass killing and beheading of babies as well as allegations of widespread and systematic rape

I think what people try to do here, when defending or minimising the actions of Hamas on 7/10 is to slyly insert words like 'mass' and 'widespread' and 'systematic' into the narrative so that certain atrocities are easier to deny, based on provability of scale.

So let's say there is cold hard evidence of four murdered babies and six raped and mutilated women. It might be argued that that doesn't really constitute anything 'mass' or 'widespread' or 'systematic' in the context of the 4000 or so Jews who were caught up in 7/10 one way or another. The fact that there might be others for which evidence has not been independently verified, is beside the point. For the Hamas apologists, it's a case of 'photos or it didn't happen.'

It's cognitive dissonance at its absolute worst. So let's say there was hard evidence that two babies were beheaded on 7/10 and four women were raped and then sexually mutilated. The people who'd rather pretend that didn't happen will say something like 'it's Israeli lies and propaganda that there was a mass beheading of babies or a widespread rape and mutilation of women.' As if the two babies proven to have been beheaded and the four women proven to have been raped then shot or stabbed in the vagina are not worth mentioning because it's not evidence of anything 'mass' or 'widespread.' It's quite disgusting really.

I remember someone asking that question once before, about why Gazan refugees could not get out via Egypt. The response from one person was something along the lines of 'Oh yeah, do you really think the Palestinians would fall for that? They'd flee to safety and the Israelis would grab their land and not allow them back in. They aren't going to fall for that trick.'

Now I'll be honest, I have zero idea whether that would be a likely scenario or tactic or not, on the part of Israel. But I found it interesting that the fact that Egypt refuses to take any Gazan refugees was totally ignored, the real reasons for it not even engaged with, and the blame for them being trapped in Gaza was turned squarely back onto Israel.

'Fact Check, Al Jazeera' is an oxymoron if ever I saw one.

@fungipie Can you please stop derailing what was originally a very cordial thread. There's a dedicated forum with around 500 threads where I can assure you, you'll find plenty validation for your posts.

I've seen it used many times as an excuse for Oct 7 - that yeah ok, hamas were a bit naughty but one can hardly blame them as they've been imprisoned by Israel for years. But by that logic, why haven't hamas attacked Egypt? Why haven't they been bombarding Egypt with endless missile strikes and suicide bombers for decades? Why choose invade Israel and not Egypt, why only rape, murder and kidnap Israelis and not Egyptians? You'd think the palestinians would actually be more angry at Egypt than Israel, not only have they - a fellow arab muslim state - imprisoned them, but they also haven't provided them with anything like the amount of aid that Israel have over the years. Can't understand why the Jews Israel seems to get all the blame 🤔

A Youtube link is hardly FACT.
Conspiracy theory land.

Why should Palestinians have to flee Palestine, Gaza, their country?

Why should anybody flee their country when it's at war? It's what refugees do. Nobody makes them leave. They don't always want to leave. But given the choice, many people do opt to leave, even if only temporarily.

You can't say 'why should Palestinians have to flee Gaza, their country?' on the one hand, and then wail that the poor things are 'trapped' with nowhere to go to escape Israel's miltary action on the other. Which is it? Are they trapped or do they want to stay put?

@HeadDeskHeadDesk
As you've said there's always this denial and deflection where the inconvenient truth gets swept under the carpet. Little details get used as excuses to deny entire things. Similar to what you were saying it goes something like this ( and I'm completly making these numbers up to illustrate a point not claiming these numbers are the actual numbers )

A news source shows heavily pixellated pictures and says these are two decapitated babies.
Another source claims a number of babies were decapitated, perhaps as many as half a dozen.
A denier will then do this:
There were only two heavily blurred pictures which the news source said were decapitated babies but how do we know? We can't see. So the IDF makes the originals available, and now the claim is well you can't trust the IDF, those are fake decapitated babies! There are no decapitated babies.
Another denier will say well news source two said there would be up to half a dozen, but only two pictures were presented! Where's the rest?? The whole story is fake!

What happens is deniers worry at the edges of the story, trying to use any differences in small details in an attempt to invalidate the whole. That the number of decapitated babies might differ depending on who's reporting and what they themselves witnessed is used as an excuse to try and invadidate that any babies were decapitated by haggling over the numbers.
I assume, perhaps wrongly, that any normal human being would be utterly against even the concept of decapitating babies, no mater what the exact number, and not demand ever more impossible evidence "Well thousands of miles away over here in the UK I didn't see any decapitated babies, so there were none. Bring me the bodies to prove it!". Especially where their friends are waving flags and celebrating outside, and bigging up the number of babies decapitated.

One last point. What @HeadDeskHeadDesk and I desribe here I've seen before in my lifetime. I remember when I was around teenage years people trying to dispute the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. Intracate stories with plans, and model mock ups of the concentratiion camps, and a long lecture trying to convince me that it wasn't possible to burn six million jews in that time because the ovens couldn't fit enough bodies through at maximum capacity. Doing all sorts of maths, and making all sorts of justifications why the six million number was too big.
When as a human being, you look at the Holocaust, and the message you take from the Holocaust is that you should do the mass gassing people in shower rooms maths, and the burning people's bodies in ovens maths, and start building little models, then you may have a body and a brain, be able to breathe, move, eat, and sleep, but you are not a human being. The answer to any deliberate massacre is not to try and disprove it happened but to stop it happening again. Trying to disprove killings like this does not work, but it does mark you out as an utterly aweful human being.

@lechiffre55

Bravo. Fantastically well summed up.

Agreed Bravo @lechiffre55

Another mordant amusement is the sheer irony of the anti-white , anti-colonialist Left ignoring that Saudi Arabia, Jordon, Egypt, Lebanon all Middle Eastern countries hate Hamas and want Israel to finish them off.
But their views and wishes are nothing compared to enlightened woke Westerners. It's Kiplingesqe; "the white man's burden" all over again.

You know, looking at social media, listening to the news, reading posts, replies etc it’s hard to understand why this conflict has become such a cesspit of hatred and vitriol towards a race/religion/people (whatever word is preferred) and why it’s an obsession with celebrities and influencers. I mean, it’s not like there aren’t other conflicts, other wars, other situations in our world deserving of attention or protests etc. Russia invading Ukraine is one example.
The one reason that this specific conflict creates such an extreme and disproportionate reaction is because it involves Jews.
Jews are so often targeted for hate, mainly I think because as a tiny minority they seem to dominate in so many areas, which I suppose creates envy or conspiracy theories. Jews don’t tend to threaten or become violent so they are easy to vilify - we are outnumbered by so many.
One thing that’s clear to me now, is that antisemitism never went away, and will always be an inherent aspect of our lives as diaspora Jews, and Israel will always be held accountable for existing at all. I hope in time, in a few years when focus has moved on to another issue, that we remember that staying silent or fearful isn’t an option. I don’t agree with much of how Israel handles our “enemies” but I do admire how they stand up against them and fight for survival rather than walking meekly into gas chambers.

Look at the other side of the story. Accusation of antisemitism, and on social media, reporting posts so they get deleted- are used to shut down criticism and any debate. It works, as illustrated by the deletion of my above post.

This post is beyond naive, and extremely racist 'poor things' you say? Do you have any idea of the reality of the situation?

'You can't say 'why should Palestinians have to flee Gaza, their country?' on the one hand, and then wail that the poor things are 'trapped' with nowhere to go to escape Israel's miltary action on the other. Which is it? Are they trapped or do they want to stay put?' - this is just beyond the pale, and just disgusting.

Perhaps look at the other side, and how accusations of antisemitism are systematically, and very cleverly, used to shut down all dissent, and all criticism of Netanyahu and zionism, illegal settlements and genocide.