Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?

[lechiffre55]

A Metropolitan police officer threatened to arrest a man for being "Openly Jewish" in London. Is this a hate crime in Scotland under the new hate crime laws?

I think it is. Could someone report it for me please I find it incredibly offensive and racist. I want to see what happens when Scottish Police try to get involved with racist actions taken by the Metropolitan Police.

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1781393179683483960

Why? People keep saying the marches have nothing to do with hatred of Jews. Are you saying it does have to do with hating Jews?

You may as well say after 9/11 anyone who looked vaguely like they may possibly be muslim shouldn’t be walking around because y’know it’s provocative.

Can what? Exist as a Jewish person? Wtf are you suggesting, that Jews should avoid certain streets in case of coming across any Palestinian marches?

I can see Twist's pov, to be honest. The police are present at demos to try and prevent violence - thus, on the wider scale, protecting everyone's right to peaceful protest. They aren't there to protect every individual's right to say what they want at that moment. It'd be great if every police officer was an impartial, sophisticated negotiator and we had enough of them to cover all eventualities but, back in the real world ...

I believe the officer felt he was taking steps to prevent potential violence/persecution. In a highly charged situation with two opposing 'sides', it's sensible to keep them separate. When I used to go to football matches, the police would channel the two lots of supporters along two different routes. It was tough luck if your route took you a mile further away from your tube station, you had to go where you were shepherded. Everyone understood it was to minimise the risk of being knifed by overzealous fans of the opposing team.

I know they often get it wrong where demonstrations on political or social issues are concerned. I do, though, think, it's right in principle to keep members of the opposed group at a safe distance from a legal, policed protest against them. Presumably they would do the same with anyone being 'openly Palestinian' at a pro-Israel rally.

What a thoroughly unkind response He wasn't doing anything wrong except...be Jewish. He wasn't doing anything 'pro-Israeli'. He wasn't shouting at protestors. He wasn't flying a flag. He was just being a Jewish citizen going about his business yet was told to leave the street because of his ethnicity/religion. I'm Jewish, and sadly find myself being grateful at the moment that I'm not visibly Jewish because I would be starting to genuinely fear for my safety in this city. I can't get my head around your response - do you have compassion for other minority groups?

To the rest of you on this thread, thank you for taking this seriously and showing compassion. (Apart from the other PP upthread that tried to insinuate the incident was a set-up to manufacture sympathy, as per that old antisemitic trope that Jews are making it all up and can't be trusted).

I know they often get it wrong where demonstrations on political or social issues are concerned. I do, though, think, it's right in principle to keep members of the opposed group at a safe distance from a legal, policed protest against them. Presumably they would do the same with anyone being 'openly Palestinian' at a pro-Israel rally.

"Opposed group"? Unless I've missed something, the guy was Jewish not Israeli! We keep being told the opposed group is Israel not British Jews! And what does "openly Palestinian" have to do with it? This guy wasn't being openly Israeli, he was just being a Jewish Londoner, walking after being at the synagogue!

Absolutely nothing would happen to a visible Muslim walking past a pro Israel rally. Have you ever seen these rallies?

WTF are you serious?!

He's living his life as a British citizen why the fuck shouldn't he be safe walking down a street?! Are you saying it's accepted that these marchers will be violent towards him & if so that the police should arrest him rather than any violent protesters?!!

Unbelievable, and the police had to apologise for their victim blamey apology.

Have you been to London recently? The marches are enormous and frequent, you would have to leave the city to avoid them. Or maybe you want London to be judenfrei, idk.

You’re just saying the quiet part out loud there, aren’t you.

The knucklehead apologists on this thread are something else. Or maybe they’re feeling more and emboldened now.

"This isn't about Jews, it's about Israel... of course there are loads of good anti-Zionist Jews... we mustn't conflate antisemitism with anti-Zionism..."

I have just seen a video of the policeman confronting the person concerned which was shown on the news.

And what this looks like is a hamfisted attempt to tell someone to avoid a group of people that may be hostile to him ie the policeman is saying the demonstraters could or might be a threat to someone "openly Jewish" and adds I am not accusing you of anything.

I suppose this would be the same if they advised someone who was "openly Asian" to not go near a National Front march.

This is standard policing, lone police taking it upon themselves to decide that to avoid a confrontation or violence they advise individuals to avoid areas where a demonstration is going on. Its happened to me. I assume because they think a lone female is vulnerable going near where opposing groups of men are confronting each other.

I am not saying the policeman was right, and the phrase used is unacceptable, and also stupid as "openly Jewish" people are on the march.

For me this is the poison coming from some sections of the political class eg Suella Braverman who tried to whip up fear about the marches not being safe, even though Jewish people take part in them.. Or when she went totally batshit and implied one of the marches was going to disrupt the Rememberance Day events, although the march that day was no where near any of the ceremonies. But what she did do is encouraged right wing thugs to turn up looking for a fight, which never happened, so they fought with each other. Or the politician who talk about no go areas in London.

Apart from the bad policing it is also disgraceful that the media, well some of them, are trying to skew the reporting to make out it was something it clearly wasn't.

Or individuals jumping in and saying it was a set up.

@IwantToRetire He threatened to arrest him though.

The phrase "openly Jewish" is chilling because it implies that jewishness is something to be ashamed of, there's the long history of some having to hide it to survive, and finally what about openly female? Openly black? Are they going to be threatened with arrest for walking down the street flaunting these characteristics, and then blamed if they're a victim of violence?

You have chosen not to read what I actually wrote.

The policeman was explaining why he thought it wouldn't be safe for the man to go near the demo.

It was not and I did not say it was about someone in a day to day way walking down the street.

The policeman trying to stop the potential violence has no relationship to being ashamed.

What are you trying to achieve by twisting what I have said.

It is as others have said, standard policing practice where there are "opposing" groups.

And lets face it, being "openly Black" is a day to day problem because as we all know if you are Black you are more likely to be stop and searched.

That is any everyday occurance.

A one off occurance in the proximity of a large march that the policeman categorised as violent isn't.

Sometimes something is just what it is. Not very competent police not being very competent let alone being aware of nuance.

All of this, yes. But I'm assuming the police had good reason to believe there were anti-Jewish people among the protesters and that this chap was at risk of harm. Like @IwantToRetire, I've been warned off (with threat of arrest) volatile situations where cops thought I could be at risk. They're there to keep the peace.

It wasn't well expressed in the moment, obviously. And the police do get things wrong sometimes, equally obviously. Maybe that chap was in no danger, I don't know - and neither does he.

It's as naïve to suppose that all of those demonstrators are against Israeli policy but not Jews, as to suppose that no pro-Israel activists are against all Arabs or Muslims. There are unreasonable people everywhere and, sadly, some of them are looking for excuses to be violent.

It is the policeman who is implying that the march is made up of violent anti-semitic people.

Maybe the march organisers could sue the Met.

Or maybe they had intel about certain members or groups within the march.

" ... Gideon Falter, who heads up the Campaign Against Antisemitism, was pulled aside by police while trying to cross the road in the middle of a Gaza rally in London last Saturday.

Mr Falter said: “Britain is rightly proud of its values of tolerance and decency, and we cannot as a society accept that this is now going to be the norm.”

He said he was not criticising the frontline officers who are “put in impossible positions week in, week out”, but called on the Met Police to curtail the marches or ban them altogether. ... "

This is another version of what happened, via the Sun.

Would it be a setup to manufacture sympathy if the man was "openly Muslim "? Or does that only apply to Jews?

It’s such a bizarre take. Would they think this for a Muslim or black person

A group threatens someone for looking a certain way and it’s not the attackers’ problem?

Hi

I must admit I thought that might also be the case when I drafted my reply last night but I could only find a definite reference to the situation in state run schools and also full face veils.

We’re not a million km from Lourdes and as a result you certainly on occasions see nuns traveling around on public transport.

I think he was being provocative. I also think he was right and courageous. Why should jewish people meekly accept being gaslit. These marches are antisemitic and jewish people aren't safe because of them. Well done that man for highlighting the truth.

This is horrific, but unsurprising. Every day we see yet more evidence of why Jews need their own country. These marches are absolutely terrifying, most especially because it is very clear the state is unable to stop them. So we just have to accept that we are now a country where violent anti-Semites openly crawl the streets and Jews have to hide away in fear. I am so, so ashamed of what we've become.

When did London move to Scotland?