Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?

[lechiffre55]

A Metropolitan police officer threatened to arrest a man for being "Openly Jewish" in London. Is this a hate crime in Scotland under the new hate crime laws?

I think it is. Could someone report it for me please I find it incredibly offensive and racist. I want to see what happens when Scottish Police try to get involved with racist actions taken by the Metropolitan Police.

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1781393179683483960

I'm waiting for someone to start on those pesky Caananites and the Southern Levant, it was all their fault for wanting their own home.

Closer to home the Scots are threatening independence, and their leaders don't seem very concerned about womens' rights....but those pesky Scottish wims won't weesht apparently.

Just adressing the last bit, but I think the reason orthodox and reformist jews are against the formation if a jewish state has to do with armageddon, the apocalypse and the coming of the Messiah?
So a religious opposition, which of course spills wholeheartedly in to politics.

I hold the position still that anti-zionism is anti the existence of the state of Israel - I cannot logically see what else it is, including from your posts.
I appreciate your posts, I just disagree.

Most of the Arab countries in the region are theocracies, governed by clans that adhere to one or another version of Islam. They are not democracies. They are very hierarchichal (spelling 😬), and patriarchically run, and frankly hellholes for women.
This was the case in Europe too, some centuries back, with intense fighting between different Christian factions.

It is not a given that History must move in such ways that the Middle Eastern countries reach the same political solutions that for example Europe has - with great personal freedom for both men and women. And it frightens me when people demonstrate and march FOR an oppressive ideology.
I am aware many march for the poor civilians trapped in Gaza, but they do so blindly and lens their support indirectly to authoritarian theocratic regimes.

Yes. When India was let free from the British Empire in 1947/48 there broke out war between Hindus and Muslims, and West- Pakistan and East-Pakistan were designated muslim countries. Much killing and uprooting of masses (millions) of people ensued. In order for people to live in the country that was «made» for their religion.
The Kashmir is still very much a region of conflict, for example.
East-Pakistan broke free as Bangladesh in 1971.

So India is a predominantly Hindu country, and the other two Muslim. After having lived for centuries together before being made a part of the Empire.

It was considered a solution to sectarian violence I suppose, does it work?
Lots displaced from the Punjab went to Africa I believe, where they were expelled again by the likes of idi amin.

It doesn’t really seem to work. A fair bit of violence between religious groups still from what I’ve been reading.

Human nature, by the looks of it, is very busy needing enemies of the tribe. Like that crazy video illustrated.

Your last paragraph resonates for me.
I see 3 main ideologies competing for governance/influence in the world, but geopolitics is an interest not an expertise for me.

Many more erudite & eloquent people than me on these boards.

You could argue that it’s military practices are driven from the declarations of war (9 wars in all I think), incessant rocket attacks and terrorist attacks which started from the first day of its inception.

I would like to add that there is some nuance.

More recently it's the military occupation in the West Bank along with:

1-The expansion of illegal settlements,
2-The military law the Palestinians are tried under rather than Civil Law.
3-The practices that make it near impossible for a spouse to join their naturalised Israeli citizen partner in Israel.
4-The blockade on Gaza
5-The transient and precarious residency of Palestinian Christians and Muslims in Jerusalem and threats of eviction and loss of residency
6-The checkpoints and humiliation of Palestinians crossing into Jerusalem for work.
7-The difficulties obtaining any building permits in Area C of WB and the rationing of residencies in rural areas like the Negev.
8-The subsequent demolitions of houses build due to said non provided permits
9-The sterilisation and segregation of cities like Hebron
10-The harassment towards Palestinians in the WB by armed settlers.
11-The disparities of water access to Palestinian communities
12-Academic and cultural expression- displaying the Palestinian flag or showing Palestinian identity in Jerusalem can get police intervention. Cultural and literature events are often cancelled or prohibited in Jerusalem
13-Palestinian archeologists get restrictions on where to conduct their digs, in the WB, what they can excavate and what they can report on.
14-Archeology sites are restricted for Palestinians- Ibrahimi Mosque/Tomb of the Patriarchs is sacred to both people but the site is divided and access is restricted for Palestinians.
15- Palestinians in the diaspora, may face difficulties getting visas to visit their families in the WB and EJ.

I do not feel these issues bring the peace any closer to reality and that addressing these are important, and an important step towards.

I do believe that it is the WHAT not the WHO (for me anyway) but I am respectful that for some this may be personal and I hope that with proper dialogue we can all find a resolution and that all this can be a distant memory.

Can I ask, what ideology do you believe marches are protesting for?

Just to clarify, are you saying that people are marching FOR Hamas or an Islamic Republic? if they are supporting Palestinians and the end to the occupation?

I hope I misread but that is categorically untrue.

Marchers are not a monolith
Jewish people are not a monolith
Arabs are not a monolith
Muslims are not a monolith
Christians are not a monolith
Palestinians are not a monolith
The Middle East is not a monolith

Yes many Arab countries have governance systems that differ widely from the western systems but to brush them all as "hell holes" for women is oversimplifying the complex sociopolitical and economic landscapes of the region. It is quite offensive too tbh.

There is a spectrum. Moreover, in the poorest economies, social progression cannot happen under oppression.

I would also like to know how badly women are treated that make living in the Middle East a hell hole- because that is not my experience. What metrics are we using?

How are women treated so badly in the UAE for example?Women hold about 50% of the positions in the Federal National Council- they hold ministerial roles and have recently enacted equal pay. This is a young country. Look at how long it has taken us in the UK to get that.

In Jordan?Women hold ministerial roles, high employment opps, and the laws enacted recently to protect their rights in marriage and against DV.

In Tunisia?Arguably one the most progressive in the region. Big campaigners on gender equality
In Lebanon? Much more liberal than its neighbours

None of these are democracies but they are making strides right? in the right direction hopefully.

Ironically- the close ally of the US and the UK, Saudi Arabia treat women and have have historically treated them like shit but politics is politics isn't it? Let's not condemn them, because we can hold them to a different standard can't we? No accountability there. Only v recently did they get rid of the "mutawa", what you'd call the "Mullas" in IR Iran- They really are two sides of the same coin. But you won't hear western leaders say things to ruffle Saudi feathers.

All govt's should be held to the same scrutiny I'm afraid. Wrong is wrong.

So India is a predominantly Hindu country, and the other two Muslim. After having lived for centuries together before being made a part of the Empire
It wasn't as simple as that. There was a lot of fighting and conquest going on before John Company ever showed up.

There is always a 'but'...to explain why Jews can't have a nation, where they aren't loathed and attacked. I'm sick of this:
France Jewish woman kidnapped
This is exactly why we support Israel and if they need me I'll fight and die for her.

Lebanon is a democracy albeit with weird rules. Jordan is a monarchy but they do have elections to an degree (I was visiting when they were on).

I always wonder to what extent the Balfour declaration (and general backing of Israel by various countries) was because the countries really wanted not only Jewish refugees from pogroms overseas but also their own Jewish citizens to, well, be not in our country, can't they live somewhere else.

Rwanda style. Don't want so and so here, find somewhere far off, do a bit of handwaving to pretend it'll magically end well.

That is simply not true.

Israel is actually a secular state, in which there is no law saying that the head of state must be Jewish. What Israel does provide, though, is a supportive environment for Judaism and for Jewish culture. There are arab -Muslims, of course, in the Knesset, and 20 % of the Israeli population is arab Muslim. There are also Christians, Druze and Bahai' plus Bedouins - all Israeli citizens

On the otherhand there are many ethno-religious states, most of them Muslim.
If a Palestinian state was formed, it would be far more of an ethno state than Israel is. Israel is multi-cultural, more so than many countries - which are far more ethnically mono-cultural.

"In addition to the 30 countries in this analysis, another 19 nations have religious requirements for ceremonial monarchs who serve as their heads of state. Sixteen of these, including the U.K Australia, Canada and New Zealand, are members of the Commonwealth of Nations with Queen Elizabeth II – also known as the Defender of the Faith – as their head of state. The other countries in this category are Denmark, Norway and Sweden"

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/07/22/in-30-countries-heads-of-state-must-belong-to-a-certain-religion/

It doesn't stop those ultra orthodox Jews from living in Israel, though, does it - nor claiming financial support from the state? The reason they oppose 'Zionism' (in principal though they benefit from it in practice) is because they believe that God will ordain when Zion is to be created, not mankind.

I'm totally against Zionism but am not at all anti-Semitic.
I'm totally against gender ideology but am not at all against anyone presenting, living, loving however they choose totally free from any kind of discrimination, harassment or intimidation.

The reason a lot of European Jews opposed Zionism in the 1800s and 1900's was because they wanted to be included as full and equal citizens of the countries in which they were living. There had always been accusations of Jewish dual loyalty or disloyalty - whereby Jews were seen as being a community unto themsleves who had no affiliation or historic ties to the host societies. These sorts of sentiments ( wanting to be included as equal citizens) were also behind the early Communist thinking.

However, it never quite seemd to work out for them did it? Any sign of national stress or tension and the Jews would be packed off into ghettos, or forbidden from participating in certain occupations, forbidden from voting, not allowed free movement - that was right across Europe. It was no wonder the Zionist dream took off - or why it still persists.

Can you explain why you are so passionately anti-zionist?

@datcherygrateful I try to be careful with my phrasing so use «most» and «many» to show that I don’t imply «all» in a region.

Am on phone, so massive blocks of text not possible.
No, no countries are a monolith.

@EdithStourton yes I agree, the British Empire didn’t cause schisms in the population, but they did know how to use it to their advantage. As all aggressors do, really.

The suspect, according to Le Parisien, sent text messages to the victim's mother and ex-boyfriend, telling the former partner that he wanted to "avenge Palestine."
“Good luck, you will never find your daughter again, you will never see her again, I will prostitute your daughter,” the suspect allegedly texted the victim's mother according to Le Parisien.

I've not seen anyone claiming to be anti semitic but anti zionist directly condemn any of this horrific violent shit. Instead it's a constant listing of what is wrong with Israel and whataboutery.

This you tube video shows a 12 year old boy interviewing a Pro-Palestine marcher at one of the demonstrations. See how she slips between " Are you Jewish?" to " Are you a Zionist?"

She also propagates conspiracy thinking - that it was Israel that funded Hamas, or created them - because for these people Israel can only be bad; inherently bad, and without redeeming features. Zionism ( the state of Israel) is supposed to represent the epitome of everything the Left hates, and it can be allowed no credits

Oh dear. Do you think she counts as a useful idiot- she doesn't seem to hold very well thought through views, especially when compared to a 12 year old boy....embarrassing.

I'd say she is typical of many/most of the marchers.

A young person asks questions of an older woman carrying a handwritten sign, and she immediately wants to know if he's Jewish/Zionist? Says it all really.
The rising level of paranoia from her too at being asked about her views.

Gutsy young chap isn't he?

Happy to help. Here is a very interesting debate which explains it all, with 4 people putting their pov and facts forwards and a vote at the end. A bit long, but so worth listening to from beg to end.

BTW, may I point out that I am neither a Palestinian or a Muslim, nor an Israeli or a Jew. Or any other faith. And I have no direct interest in either side, just trying to understand how it happened and why. And even more importantly, where what will happen 'after' this terrible war ends.

Because at the moment, the conflict is at massive risk of escalating- and the next stage will not be about Israel, Jews, Muslims or Palestine. If Netanyahu causes the conflict to escalate, and with the massive proliferation of nuclear arms over the past 50+ years- we are all done for, wherever we stand.

Do people believe that one had to be German or a Jew, to see what was happening in Germany and Poland in the 30s and 40s, and to try and counter German and even French propaganda about Jews being baby eaters, and worse? Many closed their eyes when they knew- don't rock the boat, don't listen to left - just keep quiet. This is what many in my parents generation were told. The Daily Mail and much of the UK Press too.