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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

389 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/04/2024 18:41

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

A Labour of unrequited love | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

For many years now, women have appealed to the Labour Party to try to understand the fundamental clash between women’s rights and the unfair demands of the trans activist movement…

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Woman2023 · 21/04/2024 14:43

And the fact several posters have said they will vote Tory.

Grin Surely in a country with only 3 big parties and a few smaller ones "several" posters saying they will vote Tory is hardly surprising. In fact it would show the board was highly unrepresentative of the general population if no-one said it.

Underthinker · 21/04/2024 14:46

I do agree it must be pretty shit to be a voter who will only vote for a party pledging to repeal the GRA,
I personally don't think repeal is achievable in the short term. But I would rather vote for a party maintaining the status quo on the GRC process over one who is "modernising" it. Because modernise in this context means to make it easier.

block all males from any self-designated "womens space"
I think making women's spaces single sex is tricky but achievable with tweaks to the EA. I suspect Tories will promise this in their manifesto but we will see. "Self designated" here seems like a silly dig- spaces are designated single sex by the provider not by its users.

and insist on reference to birth sex and correct sex based pronouns at all times.
I don't think anyone here is requesting this. People can refer to themselves, friends, family & colleagues how they please. As long as others aren't punished for using sex based pronouns we should be ok. Again I think you know this and are trying to make a parody of the GC arguments in order to mock them.

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:51

Labour aren’t left wing enough for me - I think they are embarrassing on so many levels not just the obvious ones.

maybe Adam knows constituency’s members completely disillusioned with the process for picking a candidate? The weaponisation of the disciplinary process? The abandonment of the working class? Maybe Adam’s done their time leafleting, fundraising and canvassing? I doubt it as my friends who have (who as I have said don’t figure women’s rights/trans stuff in their position) have a deep sense of betrayal re: the stuff I’ve already listed.

Waitwhat23 · 21/04/2024 14:58

I also object to the repeated assertion that FWR is not right wing, when anyone with half a brain can see that's not true, just by looking at what gets posted on the board. I'm very much in the minority and I'm not even a dyed in the wool Labour supporter.

that's such abject pish that I just can't take anything you say seriously.

ATerrorofLeftovers · 21/04/2024 14:59

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 13:54

The "real objection" as I keep saying is this board misrepresents Labour's position and then "puts a spotlight" on the misrepresentation.

Endless threads about Labour the evil bogeyman, they will do this, they will do that, GLAAD donations, civil service capture blah blah 😴

Meanwhile God forbid anyone says anything negative about the Conservatives.

It's extremely noticeable.

It is not misrepresenting Labour’s position. Not at all. However you might wish it were.

Lion400 · 21/04/2024 15:04

@IwantToRetire Excellent article, thank you. I will share it.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 15:11

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:05

Yes I do recognise that. And I understand it.
Ringing endorsement for the Tories is the general tone of the board writ large. The ratio of pro-Tory vs anti-Labour threads (and vice versa). And the fact several posters have said they will vote Tory.

I really don't care who anyone votes for. I object to the misrepresentation of Labour's position, its not accurate. People not believing them is a different thing. But posters saying they are pro self ID are incorrect.

I also object to the repeated assertion that FWR is not right wing, when anyone with half a brain can see that's not true, just by looking at what gets posted on the board. I'm very much in the minority and I'm not even a dyed in the wool Labour supporter.

This is how I try and get other people to see my perspective.

By insulting them, belittling them and otherwise ignoring everything they've said repeatedly.

Because I'm right and totally self aware. So There!

😂🙄

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2024 15:12

Oh, I'm glad to learn that we're all right wingers. I never realised that being a lifelong Labour voter, with a couple of Communist votes in the mix for MEPs made me a right winger.

Back soon, I'm just away to burn £50 notes in front of a tramp.

Lion400 · 21/04/2024 15:14

IwantToRetire · 21/04/2024 00:41

Strange isn't it that even on a forum aimed at women, that a thread that is about how women feel about the Labour Party based on the actual reality of how they have been treated and what has or hasnot been said by party leaders, there are still some who think they can come and tell women that how they think is wrong think. ie our feelings aren't real and / or we are too stupid to understand what these feelings really mean.

Let alone the fact that one contributor has now admitted they dont think sex and gender are an issue.

Next thing you now when someone starts a thread about how they feel about men after being disrespected and ignored and physically abused, there will be someone who will come along and say, aren't you silly you women, not only are you not intelligent enough to think but your emotions are also wrong.

But what is so absolutely astonishing is that if these posts aren't meant to encourage women to feel more positive about Labour they are a complete own goal.

Anyone with even a smidgeon of brain power would be thinking how can Labour engage with women who feel like this? Think about how to provide confidence in Labour.

But in fact they do the exact opposite. Confirm, as the article explained so well, Labour think women should just STFU and do what they are told. And daily bless the Labour Party for being so considerate as to allow us to be part and even vote for them.

Women know your place. Wink

Sometimes cant help feeling that these posters who pop up to admonish us for being so naughty as to question the Labour Party are in fact Tory apparatchiks fermenting dissent!!!

Agree on all counts.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 15:14

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2024 15:12

Oh, I'm glad to learn that we're all right wingers. I never realised that being a lifelong Labour voter, with a couple of Communist votes in the mix for MEPs made me a right winger.

Back soon, I'm just away to burn £50 notes in front of a tramp.

Photos plox or it didn't happen Tory Scum.

Waitwhat23 · 21/04/2024 15:16

I mean, take the situation here in Scotland. The Government (SNP/Green) are left/centre left but no one but the biggest unicorn fancier could possibly vote for them now as they are destroying the country. Our former FM and her husband are currently being charged with fraud, ffs. I would love to vote Scottish Labour as the rest are pretty awful too (the Tories, Tory Lite and the small never going to get in parties) but they're just a bit shite really. And the punishment of those Labour MSP's who vote with personal integrity against the whip isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

Justnot · 21/04/2024 15:21

Sinner - I know, right! I would vote communist if there was a candidate in my constituency ( I am so left-wing blah blah blah but Adam isn’t listening)

Ive got texts where I am referred to as Hanoi Jane……..

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/04/2024 15:21

Endless posts accusing women on here of being "right wing, fascist allied, pearl clutchers, conspiracy theorists and bigots" display a deep seated dislike of women. Plus a seething frustration when women refuse to comply with demands that we see certain things from a particular narrow perspective.

I love the wit, wisdom, intelligence and political insight of so many women on here - including those with different perspectives.
Adrienne Rich said "The connections between and among women are the most feared, the most problematic, and the most potentially transforming force on the planet".

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 15:25

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/04/2024 15:21

Endless posts accusing women on here of being "right wing, fascist allied, pearl clutchers, conspiracy theorists and bigots" display a deep seated dislike of women. Plus a seething frustration when women refuse to comply with demands that we see certain things from a particular narrow perspective.

I love the wit, wisdom, intelligence and political insight of so many women on here - including those with different perspectives.
Adrienne Rich said "The connections between and among women are the most feared, the most problematic, and the most potentially transforming force on the planet".

God forbid women being able to have opinions at odds with the doctrine of any/all UK political parties.

I mean, how very dare they have their own unique unauthorised views without party approval.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 15:26

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/04/2024 15:21

Endless posts accusing women on here of being "right wing, fascist allied, pearl clutchers, conspiracy theorists and bigots" display a deep seated dislike of women. Plus a seething frustration when women refuse to comply with demands that we see certain things from a particular narrow perspective.

I love the wit, wisdom, intelligence and political insight of so many women on here - including those with different perspectives.
Adrienne Rich said "The connections between and among women are the most feared, the most problematic, and the most potentially transforming force on the planet".

🙌

Justnot · 21/04/2024 15:26

Adam is wilfully misrepresenting this board and its posters - I am off now cos it’s all been said, but Adam is superficial and we - yes we we we - are fucking profound (I am riding peoples coat tails with the we a little bit there…)

DialSquare · 21/04/2024 15:28

Considering I've only ever voted for Labour, I don't appear to be doing this right wing thing very well.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 15:33

DialSquare · 21/04/2024 15:28

Considering I've only ever voted for Labour, I don't appear to be doing this right wing thing very well.

Part timer.

Why aren't you out beating all the undecided with a large stick for being right wingers?

You aren't a one true believer.

DialSquare · 21/04/2024 15:38

It would appear that I’m even less dyed in the wool than Adam!

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 15:40

Dyed in the wool wouldnt be the words I'd use.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/04/2024 16:04

DialSquare · 21/04/2024 15:28

Considering I've only ever voted for Labour, I don't appear to be doing this right wing thing very well.

Yup, we do womaning wrong, feministing wrong, thinking wrong and are politically wrong (allegedly). Expect we'll next be told, like our poor children, that our bodies are wrong.

Thankfully there are too many of us to be silenced.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 16:05

Chersfrozenface · 21/04/2024 14:33

I should draw your attention to a relevant post on MN from January this year.

"Exclusive in Diva, following a reception at a LGBT+ Labour event in Parliament on 29 Jan:

https://diva-magazine.com/2024/01/29/exclusive-keir-starmer-lgbtqia-rights/

"“We’ll strengthen the law, so every category of hate crime is treated as an aggravated offence,” Starmer said. “We’ll cut NHS waiting lists for LGBT+ people waiting for urgent physical and mental health care. We’ll modernise the Gender Recognition Act. We’ll implement a full, trans-inclusive, ban on all forms of conversion therapy. We fully support the view that conversion therapy is psychologically damaging abuse.”

“We are committed to a decade of national renewal and will work with all the organisations in this room tonight so every child can feel proud and confident in who they are, to stand up for LGBT+ rights at home and abroad and to get Britain’s future back.”

The mention of children is unclear but must have a background to the full speech? LGBT Labour hasn't tweeted about it but others have. Rayner and Dodds also in attendance.

https://x.com/djrm94/status/1752057964767101041?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

https://x.com/stevenatkins/status/1752256944843162016?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

x.com/anuox/status/1752094930074325420?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

I don't think there is any issue with wanting to support gay people and this take on what Starmer said at the Diva event is homophobic imo.

Kemi Badenoch is also working on laws to ban conversion therapy, so yet again, there is a gnats fact between labour and Tories
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/conversion-therapy-ban-kemi-badenoch-says-work-ongoing-on-new-laws/

Conversion therapy ban: Kemi Badenoch says work ongoing on new laws and she's NOT blocking it

Ministers are still working up new laws to ban conversion therapy, the Business Secretary has told LBC.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/conversion-therapy-ban-kemi-badenoch-says-work-ongoing-on-new-laws

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 16:09

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:34

So FWR is right-wing and we’ve all got half a brain……….its worrying that Adam has apparently spent so much time on this board but thinks so little of it.

Most of us find it enlightening, uplifting, and supportive - we don’t agree on everything some of us are left-wing some of us not and that’s fine.

Labour have been in the background cheerleading this shit for years, in schools and institutions etc, so sue us for not being confident of their about turn

on another note - are there not some things we need to be grateful to the tories for (though it might pain me to say it)? Commissioning the Cass report? Are we allowed to give credit where it’s due or is that not tribal enough?

I think that shows how bad the Conservatives are.

Damn right they needed to commission a review after the Keira Bell/Mrs A case. They would have been negligent not to. In fact I think they were negligent in ignoring women and letting the Tavistock situation manifest in the first place. I am not going to give the government "credit" for doing their job. That's the very least we should expect.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 16:11

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 15:11

This is how I try and get other people to see my perspective.

By insulting them, belittling them and otherwise ignoring everything they've said repeatedly.

Because I'm right and totally self aware. So There!

😂🙄

Edited

Where's the insult?
You have actually insulted me, yet you want to post snark about me. Total hypocrisy.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 16:15

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/04/2024 15:21

Endless posts accusing women on here of being "right wing, fascist allied, pearl clutchers, conspiracy theorists and bigots" display a deep seated dislike of women. Plus a seething frustration when women refuse to comply with demands that we see certain things from a particular narrow perspective.

I love the wit, wisdom, intelligence and political insight of so many women on here - including those with different perspectives.
Adrienne Rich said "The connections between and among women are the most feared, the most problematic, and the most potentially transforming force on the planet".

I have not called anyone a bigot. Got called a bigot myself repeatedly by others on a different thread though.

I also haven't called anyone on this board a fascist. I've pointed out the fascist tactics used by various politicians some posters are very supportive of.

Conspiracy theorists - I can't help it if people post well known conspiracy theories as "fact". Such as the "children identifying as cats" thing.

"Deep-seated dislike of women" my arse. I can challenge womens opinions without disliking them. Play the ball, not the player and all that.