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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

389 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/04/2024 18:41

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

A Labour of unrequited love | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

For many years now, women have appealed to the Labour Party to try to understand the fundamental clash between women’s rights and the unfair demands of the trans activist movement…

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 13:58

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 13:55

You are entitled to your opinion.

I still think 'idgaf about anyone else' is effectively totally the antithesis of what Labour values are supposedly supposed to be - about a collective responsibility to all.

Hence thinking it's selfish and hypocritical.

I would agree. If that's what I said, which it isn't.

My point was women aren't a hive mind. Not all women think as you do. Other posters saying to me that I'm "silencing women" by disagreeing are in fact silencing me and the many other women like me.

As are you with your accusations and attacks on me.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 14:02

CocoapuffPuff · 21/04/2024 13:55

You do understand quite a few people here have said very clearly that they have nobody to vote for?

Quite how you parse that into a ringing endorsement of the Tories is a mystery.

Quite

I'm torn by writing truthful comments about the local candidates (whom I know personally), not bothering to vote at all and going ib dib tbh.

None of them 'deserve' my vote at locals. Indeed I'm quite put out at just how poor the quality of the candidates is.

A number of my friends have been approached by parties to stand over the last few years (they all do a lot of volunteering) but none of them want to stand because they all are so fucking disillusioned by party politics.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:04

There hasn’t been any ‘misrepresentation’ of Labour

We can see their position and words

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 14:04

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 13:58

I would agree. If that's what I said, which it isn't.

My point was women aren't a hive mind. Not all women think as you do. Other posters saying to me that I'm "silencing women" by disagreeing are in fact silencing me and the many other women like me.

As are you with your accusations and attacks on me.

My comments are reflective of a wide problem labour has generally with nutjob activists being militant and totally alienating nonpartisan voters.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:05

CocoapuffPuff · 21/04/2024 13:55

You do understand quite a few people here have said very clearly that they have nobody to vote for?

Quite how you parse that into a ringing endorsement of the Tories is a mystery.

Yes I do recognise that. And I understand it.
Ringing endorsement for the Tories is the general tone of the board writ large. The ratio of pro-Tory vs anti-Labour threads (and vice versa). And the fact several posters have said they will vote Tory.

I really don't care who anyone votes for. I object to the misrepresentation of Labour's position, its not accurate. People not believing them is a different thing. But posters saying they are pro self ID are incorrect.

I also object to the repeated assertion that FWR is not right wing, when anyone with half a brain can see that's not true, just by looking at what gets posted on the board. I'm very much in the minority and I'm not even a dyed in the wool Labour supporter.

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:06

It’s not like women are the only ones pissed off with Labour and don’t want to vote for them - I know quite a few card carriers - some pissed off since Corbyn, the parachuting in of non local pro- Starmer candidates, and now Palestine - and no love for Tory lite Starmer - they don't give a shit about Trans stuff - they would never vote Tory

are they allowed to not vote for Labour? I’m not voting labour because of Corbyn, Labour being Tory-lite, Palestine and women’s rights - and I’m not voting Tory either

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:07

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:05

Yes I do recognise that. And I understand it.
Ringing endorsement for the Tories is the general tone of the board writ large. The ratio of pro-Tory vs anti-Labour threads (and vice versa). And the fact several posters have said they will vote Tory.

I really don't care who anyone votes for. I object to the misrepresentation of Labour's position, its not accurate. People not believing them is a different thing. But posters saying they are pro self ID are incorrect.

I also object to the repeated assertion that FWR is not right wing, when anyone with half a brain can see that's not true, just by looking at what gets posted on the board. I'm very much in the minority and I'm not even a dyed in the wool Labour supporter.

Nah you don’t get to sum up this board as much as you try.

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 14:07

WallaceinAnderland · 19/04/2024 20:00

I've been more disappointed by the Labour Party than the tories. I expected more from them. I expected Labour to support women. They have not won back my vote. Don't trust them at all.

I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them, the minute they got in they would backtrack and it would be some women can have penises all over again.

GailBlancheViola · 21/04/2024 14:07

I said "Personally though idgaf about TW using the ladies."

As in, if I only consider what I want, I don't care about sharing the ladies with trans women.

That is not by any stretch the same as saying "Then going and saying you don't give a fuck about any other woman who may have legitimate reason to care about privacy, dignity and safeguarding".

I find that really offensive. I'm as entitled to my personal opinion as you are.

You certainly are entitled to you personal opinion, however, what about the women who dgaf about TW in the Ladies, what do they do? Reframe their trauma perhaps? Abandon their religion? Just not go out? You backed up your stance with the incorrect majority of women agree with me which polls show they don't.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:07

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:06

It’s not like women are the only ones pissed off with Labour and don’t want to vote for them - I know quite a few card carriers - some pissed off since Corbyn, the parachuting in of non local pro- Starmer candidates, and now Palestine - and no love for Tory lite Starmer - they don't give a shit about Trans stuff - they would never vote Tory

are they allowed to not vote for Labour? I’m not voting labour because of Corbyn, Labour being Tory-lite, Palestine and women’s rights - and I’m not voting Tory either

People can vote for who they like. It's the constant misrepresentation I don't like.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:08

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:07

People can vote for who they like. It's the constant misrepresentation I don't like.

Except there is no ‘misrepresentation’

We can see what Labour are saying

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 14:08

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AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:15

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EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:18

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Of course I don’t, you regurgitating the same spin won’t help.

My memory is pretty good with this stuff and Starmer - and you - are all over the place

Penis or adult female which is it?

Which spaces and how?

You seem to have an issue being clear against scrutiny.

It’s down to Labour to clarify.

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 14:20

This reply has been deleted

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parklife!

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:24

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:18

Of course I don’t, you regurgitating the same spin won’t help.

My memory is pretty good with this stuff and Starmer - and you - are all over the place

Penis or adult female which is it?

Which spaces and how?

You seem to have an issue being clear against scrutiny.

It’s down to Labour to clarify.

OK.
I can't help you if you persist in characterising their policy position as "spin". They are clear. You don't like it. That's your choice.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:25

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:24

OK.
I can't help you if you persist in characterising their policy position as "spin". They are clear. You don't like it. That's your choice.

Clear on what?

Which spaces and how?

Can you post it here

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:27

I do agree it must be pretty shit to be a voter who will only vote for a party pledging to repeal the GRA, block all males from any self-designated "womens space" and insist on reference to birth sex and correct sex based pronouns at all times. Your options aren't good, I don't envy that choice.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:29

That’s not clarity

Maybe it’s not possible because Labour are spinning a line which doesn’t stand up to scrutiny

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2024 14:29

Of course it's spin, Adam, have you never met a political party before?

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 14:30

localnotail · 20/04/2024 23:51

I am so frustrated with this crap about TWAW or not when the country is falling apart. I cant understand who are these people for whom this is the MAIN issue, what kind of bubble you live in? You are not using the NHS, your kids go to private schools? You are not interested in the environmental problems, not bothered about corrupt government allowing creeps like Michelle Munro (or whatever her name is) getting away with literally stealing millions? No one had any security, buying or even renting a place to live is now a luxury, everything is so bloody expensive even people who work full time have to use food banks? You have not seen what has happened to this country during the last 13 years?... and all you care about is a single issue which, while important, is a very fringe problem compared to the rest of the shit show?

Sorry about the rant but come on, really???

A fringe issue, are you kidding me? What planet are you on? Women being raped in supposedly women’s safe spaces including hospital wards, being violently attacked for saying that men are not women, children being medically experimented on, free speech being taken away to prop up a lie, safeguarding thrown out of the window, the reality of women being colonised by men. This issue goes to the core of society, the bedrock it’s founded on ffs.

Chersfrozenface · 21/04/2024 14:33

I should draw your attention to a relevant post on MN from January this year.

"Exclusive in Diva, following a reception at a LGBT+ Labour event in Parliament on 29 Jan:

https://diva-magazine.com/2024/01/29/exclusive-keir-starmer-lgbtqia-rights/

"“We’ll strengthen the law, so every category of hate crime is treated as an aggravated offence,” Starmer said. “We’ll cut NHS waiting lists for LGBT+ people waiting for urgent physical and mental health care. We’ll modernise the Gender Recognition Act. We’ll implement a full, trans-inclusive, ban on all forms of conversion therapy. We fully support the view that conversion therapy is psychologically damaging abuse.”

“We are committed to a decade of national renewal and will work with all the organisations in this room tonight so every child can feel proud and confident in who they are, to stand up for LGBT+ rights at home and abroad and to get Britain’s future back.”

The mention of children is unclear but must have a background to the full speech? LGBT Labour hasn't tweeted about it but others have. Rayner and Dodds also in attendance.

https://x.com/djrm94/status/1752057964767101041?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

https://x.com/stevenatkins/status/1752256944843162016?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

x.com/anuox/status/1752094930074325420?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

WallaceinAnderland · 21/04/2024 14:33

The problem with Starmer is that he says things with conviction and then a few months later, says the opposite thing with equal conviction.

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:34

So FWR is right-wing and we’ve all got half a brain……….its worrying that Adam has apparently spent so much time on this board but thinks so little of it.

Most of us find it enlightening, uplifting, and supportive - we don’t agree on everything some of us are left-wing some of us not and that’s fine.

Labour have been in the background cheerleading this shit for years, in schools and institutions etc, so sue us for not being confident of their about turn

on another note - are there not some things we need to be grateful to the tories for (though it might pain me to say it)? Commissioning the Cass report? Are we allowed to give credit where it’s due or is that not tribal enough?

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:37

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:34

So FWR is right-wing and we’ve all got half a brain……….its worrying that Adam has apparently spent so much time on this board but thinks so little of it.

Most of us find it enlightening, uplifting, and supportive - we don’t agree on everything some of us are left-wing some of us not and that’s fine.

Labour have been in the background cheerleading this shit for years, in schools and institutions etc, so sue us for not being confident of their about turn

on another note - are there not some things we need to be grateful to the tories for (though it might pain me to say it)? Commissioning the Cass report? Are we allowed to give credit where it’s due or is that not tribal enough?

Completely agree with all this

It’s just one very loyal Labour poster’s opinion which can be disregarded, but they do spend a lot of time on here whilst putting down women