Oh dear

[GnomeDePlume]

I finally 'came out' to my DS(25) & DH that I believe TW are men.

Got a strong lecture from DS about how that means I am Transphobic. He has now gone off in a huff.

DH has gone silent.

Up until now we have kind of skirted the issue. From time to time I have been lectured on the apparent evil of JKR.

But the bravery of MNers in standing up to this IRL meant that I felt I could no longer continue saying nothing in my own home.

"Your Mum's a TERF"😄

Good for you.

Ask them if they realise that the vast majority (85%+) of TW do not have surgery. Why do they think you should have to share a changing room with a fully intact male to protect his feelings? Do your feelings not count?

There’s still room here for you to help your DS understand what transphobic actually means, and hopefully help him realise that not accepting that twaw doesn’t mean you don’t support trans people (in their own zone).

I had the last conversation with the tra man in my family end with me saying that we aren't going to agree but I hope he's right and I'm wrong, because if I'm right, the consequences for some people are unthinkable.

He hasn't broached the subject again.

Well done, OP. We all make our stands, day by day.

Been there, done that. DH now very gender critical. DD realising slowly but surely that I was right 😬

Two of my dc are full on twaw but I don't let them lecture me on that or anything else. The other 3 are gc thank fuck.

I'm the kind of bastard who'd ask "If TWAW why aren't you dating one?"

I was a biology teacher. If I really thought men could be women then all my textbooks I have been teaching from all these years are wrong.

I'm glad I said it but it is going to make things uncomfortable. Honestly, it would probably have gone down better if I had said I had taken up kitten drowning or something.

DH is just keeping his head down I think. He is quite happy to argue/discuss until he is blue in the face on any other subject but not this one. I think it makes him uncomfortable. Our DCs believe TWAW so vehemently and he doesnt want to be in the wrong with them.

@FlexIt I will try and speak further with DS once things have cooled a bit.

I think I'd play the woman card and say something like this.

"You are men. You don't know what it's like to be a woman. You'll never know what it's like to feel the male gaze on you from an obscenely young age until you eventually become middle aged and invisible. You have no idea how intimidating most women would find it to be in a single sex space, such as a changing room, or a rape crisis group, and find a male person in there. You'll never understand because you're not women. And trans women don't understand either, because they are also not women. If they were, they would understand why we feel so uncomfortable with them in our single sex spaces and they would hopefully do the decent thing and stay out of them. When you've grown another human in your body, as I have, naturally you don't believe that humans can change sex. The idea of it is absurd. And that's what being a woman is. A member of the childbearing sex. Everyone knows this. We are just living through a strange period in history where it's currently fashionable to pretend you don't understand. But being a woman sure as hell isn't about putting in a dress or makeup, or about having a girly brain. So how about you use yours for a hot second and think about how offensive it actually is to women to define us as anything other than adult human females?"

Absolutely...

Well done OP. Strength and solidarity!

Massive virtual high five ✋

I've been saying this very loudly since the kids were tiny so no one is in any doubt of my thoughts on the matter 😂

(Happily though the whole household agrees even now they're all old enough to make up their own minds).

As I am not a man I dont know how my DH thinks (we've only been married 30+years so still learning) but I think it is something like this:

• If a man thinks he is a woman then he isnt a proper man so I'm not interested
• If a man thinks he is a woman then she isnt a proper woman so I'm not interested
• If a woman thinks she is a man then she isnt a proper woman so I'm not interested
• If a woman thinks he is a man then he isnt a proper man so I'm not interested

@MissScarletInTheBallroom that is a good way of expressing things.

It is very easy for men to take a TWAW stance because they dont lose. Nobody wants them to shove up and make space. They seldom feel physically vulnerable and wouldnt if a TM ventured into their toilets or changing rooms.

They just dont get the sense of vulnerability.

Well done. It’s not easy sometimes, unfortunately.

When it’s all calmer - ask your DS if he’d talk about it with you.

Ask him to define ‘transphobic’.

Then based on that, ask him why he thinks you are ‘transphobic’.

Hopefully he will see that logically, saying tw are not women is simply stating fact.

Failing that - or before if it feels better, show him this. The video is excellent.

A teacher deconstructing why a student thinks jkr is transphobic.

x.com/addicted2newz/status/1753702517765021907

Good luck xx

https://twitter.com/nberlat/status/1753836994247954450

https://twitter.com/nberlat/status/1753836994247954450

Sorry IT difficulties 😂🙈

Meh! If they start having a go just tell them that men can't be women and they can just seethe and cope as you're not changing your position on this and as they are both male they haven't got a fucking clue what women actually go through and have to put up with.

Thank you @Lion400

I'm quite irritated by the number of young people who believe they are compelled or permitted to supervise what their mothers think and read.

Interestingly, they seem less interested in checking their fathers for soundness.

Absolutely OP! I’m lucky that DH is now on the same page as me, but he started off TWAW just because he thought that was the right, progressive thing to think. It has zero impact on him so he just didn’t give it any actual brainpower.

I think that conversation is staged, but happy to be corrected if I'm wrong!

It’s the age old thing isn’t it. They feel so safe with their mothers, they feel they can say or do anything. Bit like when they are in primary school and will be well behaved at school but let all the tiredness and frustrations out at home. Because it’s a safe place.

Fathers not so much. Not always, anyway.

My family have all been brainwashed, they all work for stonewall captured companies/council/NHS. I think they must have been on education days. My DH thinks saying TWAM is some sort of homophobia!!!

Maybe? Either way the point stands no?