Page 8 | Debate happening in House of Commons: Victoria Atkins on fire

colouringindoors · 15/04/2024 22:05

NeedToKnow101 · 15/04/2024 19:09

Cass Report has had an impact in my workplace already, an FE college. Leadership had already used Safe Schools Alliance, Sex Matters and Transgender Trend resources to help formulate respond to the recent government consultation.

This week they are putting the brakes on accepting/ promoting trans identities in children. I'm asking them to stop promoting it in PHSE sessions. I think two things have changed, they have woken up to the harm this ideology causes, and are scared of being sued.

Wow..This is so good to hear.

Citrusandginger · 15/04/2024 22:11

Adding my thanks for highlighting this debate. I'm not sure I have ever gained quite so much satisfaction from a HOC debate. A grown up debate in which the bullies were whooped and the receivers of hatred validated.

As it should be.

Karensalright · 15/04/2024 22:11

@RedToothBrush you are a hero, FFS with love

JeannieDark · 15/04/2024 22:13

Crouton19 · 15/04/2024 21:23

So a Lib Dem was there; Christine Jardine had this to say:

At its heart, the Cass report sadly highlights the low standard of care for our young people who were caught up in a toxic debate. There were long waiting lists, and the debate seeped into the staffing of the medical profession. Does the Secretary of State agree that we have to look at the wellbeing of our children holistically? How will she overcome the recruitment and staffing problems that have been created by this toxic debate?

I would love to be a fly on the wall at LDHQ as they work out how to spin this so they come out clean.

Christine Jardine was full on TWAW when I wrote to her about self ID so I will be interested to see the line she walks on this outside of this statement.

Datun · 15/04/2024 22:14

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2024 22:05

I am not a hero.

The heroes are the women and men who fought publicly. I've always stayed hidden behind a screen - largely because the impact of this to my own family was already enough and its taken me a long time to deal with it.

In fact I think MN has been the way I've dealt with it.

And I've not been alone. I've been just a name in a crowd.

From the word go, something felt off in the way I was told I HAD to respond and comply to my brother. Its been about making sense of that sense of off and why it felt wrong and what questioned it raised.

I don't think, I've really ever doubted that the truth would never surface. Even when others did though. We were allowed to keep talking here and so long as that continued the wall of reality would always hit eventually because thats what history tells us and because of the structure of checks and balances within the English system being more robust than in other countries.

We've ALWAYS had, the 'in the public interest' argument on our side too.

And yep, I'm like a dog with a bone when it comes to certain subjects. I can just bore the tits off people.

Still a long way to go on this, but the more people start to talk - and they are not talking in Westminster - the harder it is to maintain a lie. Because thats just what happens. Remove the fear and communication opens up. The narrative is no longer contolled by the organisational body trying to impose its beliefs on others.

Theres lots of people still playing the long game now too...

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From the word go, something felt off in the way I was told I HAD to respond and comply to my brother.

About that, Red. I dropped you a PM a while back. Maybe you didn't see it, take a look.

Waitwhat23 · 15/04/2024 22:14

IcakethereforeIam · 15/04/2024 21:37

An article in the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/15/victoria-atkins-puberty-blockers-crackdown-doctors/

https://archive.ph/qLpAm

I hope they stop the wild west prescribing of wrong sex hormones too.

She's met with the GMC. Threatening to have Doctors struck off! Can she do that?

I know the NHS is devolved in Scotland and Wales but, I assume, Doctors in those countries still come under the aegis of the GMC. Could this be a way of fettling the Sandyford?

Re: the Sandyford -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/15/snp-reject-calls-shut-tartan-tavistock-clinic-sandyford/

I'm at the point where I couldn't despise the SNP more.

SNP to reject calls to shut ‘tartan Tavistock’ child gender clinic

Health minister says clinicians prescribing controversial drugs such as puberty blockers follow ‘very high standards’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/15/snp-reject-calls-shut-tartan-tavistock-clinic-sandyford

DPotter · 15/04/2024 22:15

I would like to add my thanks to everyone on this thread. Gives me hope we'll find our way out.

I had been feeling very down about the whole issue following a major bust up with my DD about it. An intelligent young woman totally captured, She and others like her (and there are many) will find it hard to come back from their position.
Off to have me dinner and watch the full debate

TheFireflies · 15/04/2024 22:17

PronounssheRa · 15/04/2024 22:05

You can watch it in glorious technicolor

https://twitter.com/Wommando/status/1779976921792557306

He truly is awful.

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Skewered. He won’t change though, the smug self-righteous tosser.

Datun · 15/04/2024 22:18

Karensalright · 15/04/2024 21:53

The tale of the emperor’s clothing came to my mind just before I walked into this room here, and found it was already a phrase being used. Only just over two years ago. Like most members of the general public, from an average to humble background i developed a serious twitch trying to ignore the batshit i was hearing. Being a semi retired women's rights worker.

Thank you all for providing pointers to educate me.

I feel teary for those of you who whatever you do in your real life have stayed and fought and waited.

Datun, Arrabella, redtoohbrush, iwanttoretire, overtonwindow, sinnerboy, boiledbeatle, to name but a few

My heroes

I can sleep tonight knowing that my 2 half grandchild and yet to be born will be safer.

Thankyou

It is not over yet, and we all must continue wherever we can. I have raised awareness with my friends and adult children, been agreed with, mostly, been called a transphobe, you all know the drill.

But this is the beginning of the end.

As for politics we are in the era of popularism, so we can rely on a shift as they wake up to jo bloggs like me at the ballot box.

Lovely post. And yes to sleeping easier.

And for my part Karens, it was PrawnofthePatriarchy's fantastically logical, compassionate and informed posts that alerted me to all this in the first place.

I want to buy everyone a massive drink!

Karensalright · 15/04/2024 22:21

@Datun would there be a pub big enough i would love to be there. Again Thankyou Datun xxxxx

MidgeGreensteet · 15/04/2024 22:22

I'm listening to the debate now and can't quite believe I'm hearing this stuff being talked about in the HoC after years of discussing these matters in the shadows.

As a parent who's been at the coalface of this crap with a gender questioning child - meeting other parents in secrecy, swapping the whispered contact details of trusted therapists, balancing the tightrope of keeping our children close without affirming the illness, battling despair and fury - seeing this level of reality and sunlight is dazzling, disconcerting and feels almost too good to be true. Can it really be the beginnng of the end of this hell?

Dawn Butler is a fuckwit though. What a waste of bloody space.

colouringindoors · 15/04/2024 22:23

DPotter · 15/04/2024 22:15

I would like to add my thanks to everyone on this thread. Gives me hope we'll find our way out.

I had been feeling very down about the whole issue following a major bust up with my DD about it. An intelligent young woman totally captured, She and others like her (and there are many) will find it hard to come back from their position.
Off to have me dinner and watch the full debate

My Dd19 also totally captured. She posted a statement from.some trans org which criticised Cass. I very calmly replied asking if she read it, and how it was important that vulnerable children were treated carefully. Nothing back. Also sent it to my ex who's been totally trans this and cis that. Zero there too. I pray this is the turning point

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/04/2024 22:23

Karensalright · 15/04/2024 21:53

The tale of the emperor’s clothing came to my mind just before I walked into this room here, and found it was already a phrase being used. Only just over two years ago. Like most members of the general public, from an average to humble background i developed a serious twitch trying to ignore the batshit i was hearing. Being a semi retired women's rights worker.

Thank you all for providing pointers to educate me.

I feel teary for those of you who whatever you do in your real life have stayed and fought and waited.

Datun, Arrabella, redtoohbrush, iwanttoretire, overtonwindow, sinnerboy, boiledbeatle, to name but a few

My heroes

I can sleep tonight knowing that my 2 half grandchild and yet to be born will be safer.

Thankyou

It is not over yet, and we all must continue wherever we can. I have raised awareness with my friends and adult children, been agreed with, mostly, been called a transphobe, you all know the drill.

But this is the beginning of the end.

As for politics we are in the era of popularism, so we can rely on a shift as they wake up to jo bloggs like me at the ballot box.

There's an army of women behind all this - and now a lot of men. I'm hugely indebted to all those brave women who fronted it all and have spoken out despite the horrendous level of threats to them and their families and friends.

It's nowhere near finished yet - and I'm another one urging parents to challenge schools who are caught up in all this.

NeedToKnow101 · 15/04/2024 22:23

LogicLoverLlama · 15/04/2024 21:44

In light of this debate in the commons tonight - Everyone with a child, or any connection to a school please write to them TONIGHT asking them to make sure their policies are legal in light of the legal opinion about the Brighton Trans Tool kit (even if they don’t use it)

everything you need is here. Just one email to as many heads as possible

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5050647-cass-report-school-policies-write-to-your-childs-school-for-evidence-their-current-policies-and-practices-are-lawful-and-in-line-with-the-cass-report-links-starter-info

Thank you Logic, this will be helpful.

colouringindoors · 15/04/2024 22:25

Datun · 15/04/2024 22:18

Lovely post. And yes to sleeping easier.

And for my part Karens, it was PrawnofthePatriarchy's fantastically logical, compassionate and informed posts that alerted me to all this in the first place.

I want to buy everyone a massive drink!

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I'd love to buy you one! With a dc who ids as trans for last 3 years, this whole thing has been a nightmare.

Datun · 15/04/2024 22:26

We're going to need a considerably bigger bar 😆 🥂

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2024 22:27

MidgeGreensteet · 15/04/2024 22:22

I'm listening to the debate now and can't quite believe I'm hearing this stuff being talked about in the HoC after years of discussing these matters in the shadows.

As a parent who's been at the coalface of this crap with a gender questioning child - meeting other parents in secrecy, swapping the whispered contact details of trusted therapists, balancing the tightrope of keeping our children close without affirming the illness, battling despair and fury - seeing this level of reality and sunlight is dazzling, disconcerting and feels almost too good to be true. Can it really be the beginnng of the end of this hell?

Dawn Butler is a fuckwit though. What a waste of bloody space.

Seen someone else quote Churchill on this though I forget who it was:

“Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”

Long way to go still.

The more we talk the more it falls apart.

Karensalright · 15/04/2024 22:28

Is it such a mad idea that we do, have an actual gathering, maybe …..

lonelywater · 15/04/2024 22:32

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2024 22:27

Seen someone else quote Churchill on this though I forget who it was:

“Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”

Long way to go still.

The more we talk the more it falls apart.

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The good news is half the work is done for us by the other side. As the wheels on the gender bus come off, as they surely are, the Koolaid gang will be forced to actually argue their position. Good luck with that.....

colouringindoors · 15/04/2024 22:37

Karensalright · 15/04/2024 22:28

Is it such a mad idea that we do, have an actual gathering, maybe …..

Not mad at all. It would be wonderful.

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2024 22:38

lonelywater · 15/04/2024 22:32

The good news is half the work is done for us by the other side. As the wheels on the gender bus come off, as they surely are, the Koolaid gang will be forced to actually argue their position. Good luck with that.....

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The biggest thing is Koolaid and the Gang are no longer setting the agenda.

This is particularly important because they have to be responsive and when they have a lack of substance it's harder to reply than come out with a pre rehearsed script.

Not only that but they can't deflect difficult questions now. And there's only difficult questions. Fuzzy feelings from being kind are no longer the socially acceptable thing. The emotional blackmail and threats don't work anymore. It has to be more in depth.

And that's just exposing the shallowness of the argument.

lonelywater · 15/04/2024 22:41

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2024 22:38

The biggest thing is Koolaid and the Gang are no longer setting the agenda.

This is particularly important because they have to be responsive and when they have a lack of substance it's harder to reply than come out with a pre rehearsed script.

Not only that but they can't deflect difficult questions now. And there's only difficult questions. Fuzzy feelings from being kind are no longer the socially acceptable thing. The emotional blackmail and threats don't work anymore. It has to be more in depth.

And that's just exposing the shallowness of the argument.

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What argument? the central tenet of gender woo is TWAW. Well, apart from nutters and mentalists, everyone knows that bollocks. Game over. The real mystery is how the hell did this idea, which has the same credibility as flat earthism ever gain any traction, at all. Still puzzling that one out.

mrshoho · 15/04/2024 22:43

Looking forward to 'operation let them speak' in the coming weeks and months!

UtopiaPlanitia · 15/04/2024 22:43

NoSnowdrop · 15/04/2024 21:52

Yeah wonder what Sandi Toksvig is saying now? She was an incredible disappointment.

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So is Ben Bradshaw - his statement/question to the Secretary of State in the HOC debate tonight on the Cass Report was about trans-identifying adults and not gay/bi/gender non-conforming or even confused children. Very disappointing.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 15/04/2024 22:44

BonfireLady · 15/04/2024 20:19

It was Nick Fletcher from memory.

It's so stark when you realise how many people have been subjected to unevidenced care. Obviously it's possible/likely that not all 9000 went on to take any kind of medical intervention but until the follow-up data is examined, nobody knows the scale of the harm. And that's just the children under GIDS. There will also be many young adults in the 17/18-25 bracket whose fate will be known later when the review of adult services starts.

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And these 9000 people all have family. Many of their family members have been affected, often in very distressing ways.